How God Made Bruce Jenner


“I’m not sure there’s anything worse than causing those whom God loves, to question whether God loves them.” Tullian Tchividjian in One Way Love: Inexhaustible Grace for an Exhausted World

Imagine Jesus chatting with Bruce Jenner. It’s early in the morning and they are alone in the temple. The disciples are sleeping, still recovering from the previous day. But Jesus is up, and a man wants to talk to him about feeling like a woman.

(His words are based on his interview with Diane Sawyer.)

“I’ve always been very confused with my gender identity.” says Jenner, 65, tearing up. And he tries to explain it, “God’s looking down, making little Bruce … he says ‘Okay, what are gonna do with this one. Make him a smart kid, very determined … and then when he’s just finishing he says, ‘Let’s wait a second.’ “God looks down and chuckles a little bit and says, ‘Hey, let’s give him the soul of a female.'”

Bruce is guessing, but Jesus knows.

Really knows.

You see, Jesus was actually there when Bruce was created. He perfectly knows The Father’s plans and intentions for this man. He was the word that formed Bruce perfectly in his mother’s womb.

So Jesus looks at Bruce and loves him.

He loved Peter the hothead. He loved Nathaniel the racist. He loved Thomas the doubter. He even loved Judas the traitor. For sure he will love Bruce the transgender.

He also called out Peter when he was contradicting God’s will. He corrected James and John for being judgmental. He prophesied about Judas’ sin. For sure he would talk to Bruce about his sexuality.

But imagine that while they’re still talking, a mob of holy men arrive. They know that Jesus is a Friend of Sinners… “but come on! Not this kind of sinner!”

They ask each other, “What is Jesus doing with this “guy”… alone in the temple?”

The one Pharisee says, “It’s like that time he spoke to the fornicator lady near the well in Samaria.”

An older Rabbi remembers, “And like that evening when the whore washed his feet with her hair.”

The newer Sadducee adds, “Or the time the tax collector became his disciple.”

The other Pharisee reminds them, “Guys, it’s like the other million times we have seen him with the ugly and the dirty and the sinful.”

And the chief priest replies, “He’s just one of them, you know, a glutton and a drunkard… but he’s pretending to be one of us, a teacher and a Rabbi.”

These religious leaders (who know the Bible very well) remind Jesus that Bruce was caught in the act of sexual immorality (which for Bruce is becoming Caityln). They ask the Lord if he remembers the Law of Moses. Specifically the verses that talk against men sleeping with men and the reasons for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, “And this guy wants to be a woman?!? Well, let’s stone him like one!”

Gracefully, Jesus bends down and writes on the dirt.

The newer Sadducee adds shamefully, “Oh God… not this again.”

Yes, they all know what’s coming. They have seen it before. John 8 is fresh in their hearts. The woman caught in the act of adultery. And although they know the story (everyone in their world knows the story) they still judge, still demand, still bring rocks.

Nevertheless, Jesus who is the same yesterday, today and forever, gets up and says, “He who is free of sin, throw the first stone.”

One by one, they leave.

They go back to the search. To find the worst kind of sin. Another kind of adulterous woman. Another one like Bruce.

And for 2,000 years holy men have kept trying to get Jesus to throw a stone.

We do. But he never will.

If your theology makes you feel superior to others, rethink your theology. Click To Tweet

Bruce Jenner said in his interview with Diane Sawyer that he was a Christian and a conservative and a republican. He also said that he was not interested in men. Maybe this whole thing is a ploy to get huge ratings on his next reality TV show. Maybe Bruce misses the attention he got while being the greatest athlete on earth back in the 70’s, so he’s trying to get it back. Maybe he’s jealous of his step-daughters. Maybe he’s bored.

I know this as gossip.

But maybe he’s broken, confused, tired and alone; like we all are (in some shape or form). And if that’s the case, then this is the perfect opportunity for us to love him well. This is the time and the season for the sons and daughter of God to pray, reach out and love this man (and all the men) that are trying to become a woman.

I don’t know which parts to believe about Mr. Jenner’s story. All I know is that, “God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8

I know this as truth.

That’s the superior story.

This is the script I’m sticking with.

God made Bruce Jenner to be loved.

You might not have access to a celebrity like him, but I’m sure you have one family member, or friend, or co-worker who considers themselves LGBT. You might look down on them. You might be weirded out by their behavior. You might even think that if you befriend them, their sexuality is going to contaminate you.

But Jesus would have a chat with them.

No stones in his hand.

Only the scars of the cross.

And this song of hope: “Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.”

I believe the Bible is clear; Homosexuality is a sin. But so are about 30 different things I did today. That means we all need the Savior. We all need the sinless one to our rescue.

“With Jesus there is no us and them – there is just us.”

Father Greg Boyle in his incredible story: Tattoos on the Heart / The Power of Boundless Compassion


I will save the energy of hate and use it for love. I will not waste time debating “right or wrong”. I’ll learn to talk to the marginalised; to try to understand their journey, to make their healing my own.

Pastor Greg Boyd writes, “45% of transgender teens attempt suicide. I can’t understand their inner torment, but they’re not making this up. I can’t judge them.”

I won’t either. So let’s change our ways, let’s go back to the ways of Christ.

It all starts by talking to the LGTB community as friends not as enemies.

It ends by getting rid of the rocks, and the stones.

“God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” John 3:17

Peace.

“Our task is not to protest the world into a certain moral conformity, but to attract the world to the saving beauty of Christ.”

A quote from Brian Zahnd in the life-altering book: Beauty Will Save the World (Rediscovering the Allure and Mystery of Christianity) – This book will transform the way you see and approach the world. 

Tired of church lately? Discover a different way, READ THIS:

Other articles of Jesus in Hollywood:

– When God Speaks to Katy Perry

– Shia LaBeouf gets Born Again

– Hugh Jackman, Meet Jesus


Carlos is a pastor, a provocative preacher and the author of "Designed for Inheritance". He also serves as director of Catch the Fire Latin America and Chief Editor at HappySonship.com. Together with his wife Catherine, they have two gorgeous boys and are awaiting a baby girl through adoption.

271 Comments

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  1. I enjoy reading your articles; however, you got this one just a bit off. You mention his sexuality as being his sin several times, but Bruce Jenner is not gay. He is not drawn to men, nor has he ever had sex with a man. His sexuality is not the sin, it’s the feeling that he has the soul of a woman, and so he desires to look and dress as a woman. If you watched the interview, the scriptures in Deuteronomy were brought up, those that state that one gender should not dress in the other gender’s clothing and calls it an abomination to the Lord. So, I understand the basis of your article, and I agree… to love these people wholeheartedly as Jesus would. But I would love to have this particular issue addressed. It breaks my heart that people like Bruce go through this pain. Is it a choice? Is it a predisposition that some are born with (perhaps, as a doctor said in the interview, the time where hormones wash over the baby in the womb, determining the gender, the job was incomplete… another unfortunate fallen-world occurrence)? Thanks for listening.

    • Your response it absolutely correct. I watched the interview as well to
      understand what this poor man is going through. It broke my heart. So so
      so much confusion from such a young age. Bruce Jenner really did an amazing job sharing his
      heart. God bless Bruce Jenner and all the men/women struggling in their
      identity! JESUS you know the solution, you have the solution, you are
      the way, may you infuse them with their identity in YOU! Dear Jesus come
      to their rescue!!!!

    • But, if he truly believes he was meant to be a woman, would not the greater “sin” (given circumstances within his control to make the changes needed to bring his perception in line with his reality) be to continue to live as a man, in essence lying about his true gender identity?

    • We are all born into sin, it is a choice to live that life style. ANY sin is a choice and if GOD says its sin to live that way then its a CHOICE. Your right he was born that way because we are all born into SIN. But by the blood of JESUS we are saved and if you are saved you will NOT look to sin. When you accept JESUS in your life the old man is gone and behold the new man has come. If you have been saved and are sinning repent keep your hand out of the past b/c GOD has forgiven you. JESUS did not die in VAIN , He did not tell mary “rise and go sin” HE SAID ” mary rise and sin no more!”

      9No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

    • We are all born into sin, it is a choice to live that life style. ANY sin is a choice and if GOD says its sin to live that way then its a CHOICE. Your right he was born that way because we are all born into SIN. But by the blood of JESUS we are saved and if you are saved you will NOT look to sin. When you accept JESUS in your life the old man is gone and behold the new man has come. If you have been saved and are sinning repent keep your hand out of the past b/c GOD has forgiven you. JESUS did not die in VAIN , He did not tell mary “rise and go sin” HE SAID ” mary rise and sin no more!”

      9No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

    • Jesus is all about a relationship with him, it’s not about religion. I’m confused how you would think that if you have read the new testiment. Thank goodness God isn’t fair because we would all be going to he’ll. God isn’t fair, he gave us forgiveness and healing and love. By religion, we didn’t deserve any of that. I’m so glad God loves us no matter of our past mistake. sin is sin and God sees sin as sin. He doesn’t break it down.

      • The point that a lot of people are trying to make is that we’re trying to help people with a sickness by telling them they’re healthy. I have a disease that makes me throw up all the time. When I go to a doctor and they tell me I’m fine, this is normal, I don’t need pills or treatment to stop this, this is who I am, this is how I’m meant to be, but I’m in pain and miserable all the time – the doctor’s not doing their job. We need to love and accept transgenders, yes, but if one is going to interpret these Scriptures correctly, one HAS to include Jesus’ last command (YES, it WAS a command, not a suggestion, a hint, or anything – a COMMAND) to the woman caught in adultery: GO AND SIN NO MORE.

        • So where in the Bible, or in the realm of logic, is the connection you are presuming exists between being transgender and “SIN NO MORE”? You have the right to look at it as a form of sickness, similar to a genetic disease, mental illness, depression, etc.. that the love of God is able to heal on some level, but I cannot see how it can be equated to the sins of adultery (or even what English bibles translate as ‘homosexuality’ for the sake of argument), that one can simply do “no more”.

    • The point: our behavior shouldn’t interrupt the conversation Jesus is having with people entangled in any/every kind of sin. This is truth. I am sad that you don’t recognize it.

  2. Carlos, love it! I know this will get a TON of shares and readers. Double-check your punctuation and need a WE in “Okay, what are gonna do with this one.” Don’t want grammar Nazis throwing stones 😉

  3. oh dear, I could not have put it perfectly. Indeed I see Jesus’ love for Bruce shine through you. May we all go on to love one another more and judge one another less.

  4. You missed something about the woman caught in adultery. JOHN 8:7 And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground. 9 But when they heard it, they went away one by one, beginning with the older ones, and Jesus was left alone with the woman standing before him. 10 Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”]] SEE IT? “GO AND SIN NO MORE.” Jesus did not applaud her for her courage, etc!

    • The story of the adulteress and Jesus drawing a line is fabricated. Christian and non-christian historians alike will tell you this is an addition to the the book of John and not seen in earlier manuscripts prior to 400 CE. With that in mind, the story has no place in the bible because it was not written by the original author of the book of John and was added in at a much later date. Given it was fabricated and not added in, it shouldn’t be understood as something Jesus said or taught – because it wasn’t. http://blogs.christianpost.com/confident-christian/the-gospel-according-to-bart-ehrman-16491/

      • FINALLY, someone said this! It drives me insane so many people will use the Bible as an argument, but only to the extent they have been taught in Church. They don’t bother to look at the FULL CONTEXT of a passage, dig into the original languages, or even try to fully understand what the little brackets mean other than “not in earlier manuscripts” as the footnotes day. Thank you for being a more educated person of the Bible!

    • I agree. And I find the part where he claims God laughed and said lets give him a soul of a woman very offensive. God doesn’t condone sin, he frees us from it. He doesn’t place such a burden on us and no, it isn’t society that causes the inner torment. The problem with society is that instead of acknowledging the fact that the devil does exist and does have an influence on the world, many choose to blame God for all our shortcomings and believe that we shouldn’t strive to do better, but that we should just be accepted without trying to be like Christ. That goes both ways, but what this man needs is a touch from God and to ask for help with the struggle and the emotions that he’s feeling. He is not a God of confusion.

      • The lost do not know they are lost. Let me repeat that: the lost do not know they are lost.

        When I was drinking myself into blackouts, smoking pot, making fun of Billy Graham, and denying that Jesus was the Son of God, I didn’t know I was a sinner. I was full of myself and the world. I had the pastors in my family telling me who Jesus was but I did not listen. Jesus continued to keep a hedge of protection around me by whispering me at times of danger and saving my physical body numerous times. He sought me for years and saved my soul when I was 34.

        I get very frustrated with those that are so caught up with their self-righteousness that they don’t remember their past: before Jesus. I have gays in my family. I love them so much. They don’t live in my area of the country. Jesus is not just for a few select. He went to the ostracized, the defeated, the poor and was there for the wealthy too. I don’t know where I’m going with this other than we are to make disciples of the world…it is our command…

        • You’re right, and I agree with a lot of things in this article. Love first. It covers a multitude of sins. But I wouldn’t dare agree with the idea that God made him that way and laughed about it. God doesn’t make mistakes. Satan puts things in our way to hinder us and cause confusion. We may not completely understand why a person is gay, or why a person cheats and lies and steals, but we know that they are all wrong in the eyes of God and he wants better for us. He loves us and he wants us to put aside our selfish desires and follow him. To be pure like him. Yes, love everyone, but telling someone they are okay in their sin is nothing short of sending them to hell ourselves. Love is also honest

          • That is true, and that’s a good, neutral, even caring way to go about introducing someone to Christ. I know people who are gay, as well. I treat people the way I want to be treated. If I didn’t, I would burn bridges with some truly loving people and I don’t think it’s my place to judge the person. The word is clear on the sin, and at this point many are simply in denial of it being wrong, as you were in denial that Jesus existed and as I was in denial that my actions when I was away from God wasn’t harmful to my well-being. Sometimes it hardly feels possible to show someone they are doing wrong, so I leave that to Christ, but I couldn’t lie to them and tell them they are alright either.

          • For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

          • I’m sorry, but if I have to see one more time “God doesn’t make mistakes” as a person’s answer to a problem in this world I’ll pull all my hair out. In my opinion (and yes, I am entitled to have one) this is an ignorant thing to say as a response to something you don’t know or understand. First off, God is IN control of this earth and will ultimately do what will show His Glory, but God DOES NOT CONTROL what happens on this earth. While He ALLOWS it, He is not RESPONSIBLE for hurricanes, tornadoes, tsunamis, earthquakes and any other “natural disaster” that occurs. Nor is He responsible for the “Pandora’s box” of evil things that was opened and set free when Adam and Eve CHOSE to disobey God’s command in the Garden of Eden. Second, if you are looking for someone or something to credit for what happens in this world, it would be the devil. Since the time of Adam and Eve the devil has been set free to roam this earth and do his evil deeds and tricks and will not be contained until God/Jesus’s return in the End Times. Third, who are we to think we know the mind of God? As righteous a man as he was, even Job was not so foolish. This is the preface to what I’m now going to say. How do you explain all these babies that are born with deformities like spinal bifida, crooked or missing limbs, no sight or no hearing, various facial deformities and the list can go on at quite some length. Now do we just let them die? Or because of the vast knowledge we now have of medicine, do we correct the problems and make them as “normal” as we can. Why then is it so hard to believe that there are those who are born with genitalia that do not match what their heart and mind tells them they are supposed to be? These individuals are not perverts, at least not from what I’ve read. Bruce for one, lived for 65 years as a man. He was a good son, he became a great athlete (possibly to compensate for his feelings of gender identity), he was a good father and a good husband. But during all this time he lived in inner turmoil because even as a toddler he felt he should have been born a female. Again, it would be foolish of us to try to understand or make sense of what could have gone wrong during his conception or his time in the womb while he was forming and growing. Could there have been some misformation of genes and/or hormones? The simple answer is not that God doesn’t make mistakes but that we simply don’t know. Personally I don’t think this type of anomaly should be grouped in with gays, lesbians and homosexuals as they just don’t fit the mold. Bruce has never engaged in any perverted acts, homosexual encounters, etc. He lived his life in a normal way as a normal male. He did all the “manly” things he was supposed to do only he never felt deep inside him that he was a man. Lastly, what I don’t agree with is his need to make this a public spectacle and to actually have a TV reality show following his transformation. If he has any mental problems at all, it might be that he has this need to be in the public arena all the time…to be seen and heard and be popular and loved by all who can see him. But I guess when you have had that most of your adult life, it is like a drug and hard to give up. I for one wish him the best life he can have for whatever time he has left on this earth. If indeed this is the work of God then God has a reason for it, and it will eventually become known.

          • Barbara I could just hug you b/c you said word for word exactly how I feel. I do know a transgender and if people would take the time to talk to them and learn about them they would maybe, just MAYBE understand a little better. You said it perfectly! 🙂

          • Great post Barbara but what many people can’t seem to get, is the fact, that it is a proven fact that however we are born is due to genetics. God created all beings, and like it or not people can say try to separate Bruce from others, but there is no difference. People are people. Gay, Straight, whatever. How mankind can play God and claim to know what someone who is different from them is going through inside is beyond me. People better start waking up and wondering why there are such high rates of suicides in this country. I will give the Gay haters here a clue!!! Look in the mirror!! People it is time to search our hearts as Christians and remember, when Jesus said Go and sin no more, the woman was an adulteress. There is a difference in sinning and how a person is born. Gay folks can’t help who they love no more than you can help who you love!! God is a God a love. Someone posted earlier that God is not the author of confusion and that is very true. I encourage each and every one of you, if you claim to be a christian, get to know some of your neighbors who have been turned away from their own family because of the way their child was born. This could be every one of you. When I see all the judgement by so-called Christians of the GLBT community, it makes me embarrassed for our Lord and Savior to think we are all he has to represent him on this earth. Jesus would not be judging like this!! It is really sad folks!!! My prayer is that everyone on this page that reads this searches there hearts and makes a heartfelt effort to get to know these folks and you might find the things are not the way you think they are. My prayer in the name of Christ is that everyone gets on their knees and truly cries out to God for guidance before judging anyone, just because they are born different, rather than choose to be different as many people seem to think!!

          • There is no gay gene. People are not born gay, because if they were that would make God unjust in His judgement of homosexual practice, which is found throughout the Bible. And we know that God is always Just and always Good.
            Its not about getting to know glbt folks. Of course we are all only human and we all make mistakes but most Christians repent of their sins, whereas the blbt folk want to dictate to God and to His church what is acceptable behaviour. And thats just not ok.

          • First of all Dorrie, if you read your history of the Bible to begin with, you would know that the word homosexual did not appear in the bible until the King James Version in the 1600’s. There were two King James Versions by the way, and the second version we now use, is missing several books from the end of the old testament. The apocrypha or hidden books are what they are referred to. I encourage you to search online, because you are totally wrong about there being no gay gene. It has been scientifically proven. If people did their homework before making their comments they would be much better off. And for the record, God is not unjust, but man’s opinions are. I cannot understand how someone can take it upon themselves to claim to know how God created a being, when they are not God in the first place and haven’t a clue of how a person was born.

          • Why would anyone choose to be gay to be murdered, bullied and ridiculed all their lives. I truly believe if you would get to know people who were gay you would fully understand just how wrong so many people are. And God is not pleased with this. People are people. No one should ever be denied the right to love. You wouldn’t want anyone to tell you who you could or could not love. These people pay their taxes just like you and I and deserve to have the same American rights of any other being in this country.

          • Refer to these links above about genetics and then tell me there is no gay gene folks!!

          • There is not one person on this site that has a right to judge another human being for anything. The bible says judge not and worry about ourselves instead of pointing our fingers at others.

          • If we focused on Christian love and searching our own hearts, we would be kept too busy to worry about others!!!

          • Why would anyone spend so much time doing copy/pastes of things they apparently don’t understand?

          • I must correct myself. The word was never used, even in the King James Version. I will say that is when the misinterpretations began.

          • There is no gay gene.
            As for speaking for God I think you and your like take the cake. For hundreds of generations we have understood that God made us male and female with clear instruction to fill the earth and now because the world has made it possible we are told that open sexuality is ok and you have twisted Gods most holy word around to fit into your world view.
            The sin that is far worse than actually committing any sin is leading others into it and telling them it is ok and that God shines down on their sin. We are all sinners but it is wrong to practice sin and teach others to do so as well.

          • If I’m reading this correctly, you’re saying that God sometimes fashions and forms a child in the womb with body parts designed clearly for the opposite sex, but gives them an attraction for the same sex – defeating the purpose of the first commandment He gave us which is to “be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth?” I can’t seem to find that in my Bible. Perhaps that’s somewhere in the satanic version – blasphemies chapter 1?

          • If I’m reading this correctly, you’re saying that God sometimes fashions and forms a child in the womb with body parts designed clearly for the opposite sex, but gives them an attraction for the same sex – defeating the purpose of the first commandment He gave us which is to “be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth?” I can’t seem to find that in my Bible. Perhaps that’s somewhere in the satanic version – blasphemies chapter 1?

          • So what do you say about those of us who don’t or can’t have children? That our purpose in life is pointless in the eyes of religion?

          • Let me know when organized religion starts forcing people to procreate and condemning those who do not or cannot. At that point your attempt to deflect the point might be valid.

          • I was rebuking a fellow “believer “Justconch. What good will my answer be to the unbelieving? What good is my key when you refuse to believe you’re in prison?

          • Thanks for sharing and explaining, Evangelist Austin. I was asking a true question: I don’t know what the Word states about childless people, and it was an honest inquiry. Hope it didn’t come across as a confrontation. Peace.

          • I appreciate your honesty. The truth is that God loves you regardless of your ability to reproduce or not. The Lord gave us the commandment before the fall of man by the way, so you can assume that infertility and other defects and corruption came about after Adam sinned – courtesy of the enemy who comes to kill, steal, and destroy. Jesus desires for us all to have life and in abundance and to help give life, He knows what you’re going through and He is able to heal and bring restoration. Look at Sarah, she was sterile and well into her years (90+) and the Lord healed her and she had Isaac with Abraham. I’ve seen several accounts of the Lord restoring people to be fertile and I know He can do it for you (if you are). And if you don’t decide to have children that’s perfectly fine too! Look around, isn’t the earth subsided enough? We obeyed Him after all!

          • Through God all things are possible. We are told have a child-like faith. So, people who are infertile should pray and believe that God could restore their reproductive organs. You have not, because you ask not.

          • Your god is weak and not god.. The true God is creator of all things, and in control of all things. The idea of God “allowing” anything means things happen outside of His foreknowledge, which makes Him NOT omniscient or omnipotent, and ultimately, NOT GOD. He’s the Potter, we’re the clay.. Some vessels are reserved for wrath. One of His attributes is wrath, that hasn’t changed. He creates vessels reserved for wrath to express His wrath, to His Glory, because He IS God and does whatever he pleases… Read your Bible for once..

          • Jessica, it sounds almost like you read the article as if Carlos was saying that God gave Bruce a woman’s soul and laughed. I just wanted to point out that the way I read it Carlos was paraphrasing what he thought Bruce would say and think. Maybe Bruce really does think God gave him a woman’s soul. Obviously we don’t believe that, but it’s true that Bruce probably has all kinds of confusion about why he deals with what he deals with.

      • Why do you find that offensive? We do not know what God does first hand when He molds us all individually in our mothers womb… We cannot say that “God laughed and said lets give him a soul of a woman” is absolutely not true. We cannot. That is why God urges us so much in His word to leave it alone telling do not judge people! That is going to be MY JOB!

    • Jesus tells us all to go and sin no more. WE seem to magnify the sins that we are not guilty of committing. If we were all perfect there would not have been a need for Jesus. Have you ever noticed that people choose the sins of other’s to enlarge. Those who have the vices that we are not guilty of. If we are not overweight, then we choose gluttony, If we don’t smoke, then we choose smoker’s, if we are not guilty of adultery then that’s what we choose. We minimize the sins that we commit If we truly believe the Bible and that sin is sin, then judging someone is a sin, not greater nor lesser than their sin, but it’s our sin. I am not defending LGBTG, I am defending my Christian belief and faith in God that He is big enough to take care of this world and it’s not up to us.When Believer’s start to act as believers, show the love of God and the forgiveness that the Bible teaches then we will be a light to this world that God would have us be. I watched the Jenner interview. I didn’t hear him ask US to forgive him., maybe because he know’s it’s not up to us. All the time we spend deciding what everyone else should do is time taken away from working on what we need to change about ourselves. Maybe God would have us pray for Bruce Jenner, and in the meantime maybe pray for ourselves that we would show more of God’s love and less of our judgmental shortcomings. Just my opinion.

    • Ah, but do not consider attacking interpretation with interpretation just because you used the rest of the passage. You still used the rest of the passage with your own interpretation. When Jesus says ” Go and sin no more”, Jesus isn’t saying stop sinning. Why? Because that would be a task that is impossible for us to hold and Jesus knows that. Jesus is saying to her “Here I am… You know me now as the one who forgives you and loves you and will defend you even though your accusers surround you with stones when you sin and fall short of me, I will protect you and love you for you know me now and my goodness.” What Jesus says is always out of love and compassion not dictation.

    • Yes, we should follow the whole of Scripture not pick out things to support our own “personal short comings” (Sin)

    • “Go and sin no more.” Yeah. But how’s that working for you? None of us does a very good job of that though, do we?

  5. Carlos, I absolutely agree that to love and befriend GLBT people is the Christlike thing to do. However, they are not the only parties to be loved in the current cultural debate around the redefining of human sexuality and marriage. How these questions are decided will determine what is taught to the children coming up behind us. We are called to speak the truth in love. This necessarily entails disagreeing in love. I hope we can agree that loving and befriending is not the same thing as celebrating falsehood.
    https://artandlifenotes.wordpress.com/2015/02/12/why-bruce-jenner-is-not-a-woman/

    • Sexuality and marriage are not being “redefined.” Rather, for the first time, LGBT people are being *included*.
      When slavery was abolished, it didn’t redefine citizenship. When the right of women to vote was recognized, it didn’t redefine suffrage. We are simply acknowledging God’s biological truth that gay people are only attracted to others of the same sex and that this is their analog to heterosexual marriage.

      • Yes, marriage would be redefined. It used to be defined as a union ratified by the church and state (either one or both, depending on when and where in history) of a man and a woman. Period. You change that, you’ve redefined marriage. Please don’t play silly word games to justify your position.

          • Sally–This chart totally misconstrues the word. God never condoned a lot of what you have posted. If you study the OT, you begin to understand that yes, these things went on (i.e., man + wives + concubines), but because this wasn’t sanctioned by God, there were always consequences to their actions. And, many of the laws regarding marriage, such as the Rapist + his victim were to show that God could make something good out of a seemingly horrible situation. It’s just not as black and white as this chart shows.

          • HOW in ANY way is a victim being forced to MARRY their Rapist ‘making something good’ out of a HORRIBLE situation??? That rationale makes NO sense to me.

          • In the ancient near east culture of Israel, their laws included many pertaining to sex, including a prohibition from extramarital sex. Virginity at the point of marriage was a big thing for the Israelites. When a woman was raped, she was considered tainted (although through no fault of her own), and the men of the time would not marry her for that reason. The injunction for a rapist to marry the woman he raped isn’t to “make something good out of it”, but to (some might say oddly) pay restitution for his crime. An unmarried woman at the time would have essentially no means of supporting herself, and a raped woman would additionally have no means of *being* supported by a husband. For a man to have to marry the woman he raped was to force him to give her what he stripped of her: a chance at a secure future. When she would have been unable to provide for herself and not able to marry someone else who could provide for her, then it became the man’s responsibility to provide for her. It may not heal emotional damage, but the physical needs that would have gone unmet are then taken care of. That was the impetus behind the Israelite law.

          • God’s ways are not our ways, thus we need the Holy Spirit to teach us about biblical matters. Until we commit ourselves to Christ,His word won’t make sense to our limited carnal minds.

          • Sometimes we just need common sense to know that forcing a woman to marry her rapist is barbaric and inhumane.

          • Props Robert. I’ve replied to Heather above, won’t retype. Thanks for calling Barb out on that comment. Good on you.

          • Nor to me. I thought it was a horrible law – until I heard someone explain the alternatives for a woman who’d been raped – they would either become destitute or a prostitute. Not very woman-friendly societies, back then. Nor now, really. At least this way, she would be provided for.
            It still seemed cruel to me, until I realized – you can’t force a rapist to do something if you don’t know who they are. And you can’t condemn someone who has experienced rape to destitution or prostitution unless you know who they are.
            This commandment was basically God calling the community out, and saying, “You know what’s going on. Don’t you dare turn a blind eye, or turn your back on the one who was wronged – make sure the offender makes good.”
            The marriage that would take place here was supposed to be a wrongdoer pledging to support the wronged one, for life, under pressure from the entire community. I say supposed to be, because I’m sure people twisted it for their own selfish ends. But that’s on us, not on God.

          • Actually, polygamy was absolutely condoned by God. As for concubines, it was God who told Abraham to take Hagar. And as for polygamy, all four of Jacob’s wives were sanctioned by God, which is why all twelve of the sons became a tribe of Israel. Polygamy was also blessed by God during Israel’s monarchic period. King Solomon had eighteen wives, even though God told him to limit himself to four. I could go on with other examples, but in the Old Testament, which as an Orthodox Jew I have studied extensively, polygamy is very clearly sanctioned by God.

          • As for concubines, it was God who told Abraham to take Hagar..what?!?!?……3After
            Abram had lived ten years in the land of Canaan, Abram’s wife Sarai
            took Hagar the Egyptian, her maid, and gave her to her husband Abram as
            his wife. 4He went in to Hagar, and she conceived; and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her sight. 5And
            Sarai said to Abram, “May the wrong done me be upon you. I gave my maid
            into your arms, but when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised
            in her sight. May the LORD judge between you and me….what part of that said Abraham was told by God to marry hagar? I don’t recall God saying ” I Will make your seed as numerous as the sands on the sea…but i need to to hook up with your wife’s servant girl to make it happen”…so enlighten me please. I read the bible that actually says, Sarah gave the girl to Abraham, and like a man who, even though knew God really well, enough so that he heard God’s voice, still had fears and shortcomings enough that not only did he lie to pharaoh to protect himself so he wouldn’t be killed instead of trusting God…but also slept with , married, and impregnated a servant girl that would have a son named Ishmael, who would have a great great great …grandson named Mohammed who would hate, and tell his followers to kill, anyone who came from Ishmael’s half brothers side of the family..the guy named Isaac who is the forefather of the line of David and of Jesus..talk about some daddy issues on that side of the family tree!….in other words…not all marriages are of God…and even if some should choose to go outside the design, as Solomon did, they will find that even though they “made it through” there were extensively more problems than those who TRULY did it within the will of God..Solomon is a great example..he married too many women and turned to false Gods…As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and
            his heart was not fully devoted to the LORD his God, as the heart of
            David his father had been….need i say more sir?….

          • Ok, where to start. You’re right, Sara despised Hagar. Nowhere in the Torah does that say that it was Hagar’s fault. Abraham chose his wife over his concubiNE in a move ththat is quite. On traversal to Torah scholars. If you actually want to understand the Old Testament, it would help to read the Talmud in and Medieval Comme tries on it. Also, you had no response to Jacob and his four wives. As for Solomon, his mistake was marrying too many wives and marrying outside the faith. It was not polygamy. Most Jewish kings were polygamous. To deny that polygamy was acceptable in the Old Testament is simply to deny reality.

          • A lot of kings in ancient times were polygamous…..this was due to the political nature of their position. Sure, there are instances of notable Israelites being polygamous, but it was certainly not the norm….nor did God command such of those who did. Jacob was tricked by his uncle into marrying sisters. The other two women he had children by were their handmaidens. Not to mention Rachel had died by then.

          • You are way off base. Please do NOT twist Scripture – You obviously haven’t a clue as to what God’s Word actually says/means…

          • I have more than a clue. I’ve studied the entire Old Testament in its original Hebrew since I was a boy and know the text pretty well. How am I off base? By saying that the Old TestTestament shows Jewish practice of polygamy for a millennium? Show me where I’m wrong.

          • I suppose I’m not, Brian. I should know better than to engage in a debate with anyone who is too emotionally invested.

          • I got another reply that I can’t find, so Wendy, this if for you. You said, “Josh, to my knowledge, the OT never says that God told Solomon (or anyone else) that Polygamy is ok. God gave us freewill, which means there are times when God finally hands us over to our sin because we would not listen to His corrections and turn from our sin.”

            This is simply uninformed of what the Bible says. There are several instances in which God explains the parameters of polygamy, clearly condoning it. In Exodus 21, God explains how a man should provide for any additional wives. In Deuteronomy 21, the laws are explained about dividing inheritances among the children of different wives. Clearly, polygamy was an acceptable form of marriage.

            Besides, with the plethora of Jewish polygamous marriages without a single word in the Old Testament criticizing it, the real burden falls to you to explain why this was, as you put it, sinful, when there is no evidence anywhere in the Old Testament that it is.

          • You are wrong. In Genesis God clearly laid out His plan for marriage– that man shall have one wife. It is PEOPLE who freely decided to depart from this model and make up their own rules. Instead of condemning them for this rebellion, in His great love for them God patiently worked within the parameters of their culture, gradually correcting errors while maturing/conforming the generations to His ways.

          • Did you even read my post? Can you actually respond to the points I made and the scripture that I cited? If you want to actually make a point, respond to my proofs and cite your own. Where does God say that marriage should only involve two people? Because this would come as a huge shock to Jews, who know a thing or two about the Old Testament and never found a prohition against polygamy. Again, God explained in Exodus how to marry a second wife and explained in Deuteronomy how to arrange the inheritance of multiple wives. God doesn’t do that if He disapproves of it. Honestly, it boggles my mind that someone who considers themselves well versed in the Old Testament could even question whether polygamy was allowed in the Old Testament. To be blunt, it’s clear as day.

          • Question….”Where does God say that marriage should only involve two people?”

            Answer…..Marriage between a man and a woman was instituted by God with Adam and Eve. Genesis 2:24 states: “Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh.”

            In Matthew 19:4-5, Jesus REAFFIRMS this: “He answered, ‘Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the TWO shall become one’?” (two…not 3, 4, 100)

          • I have never heard these things as you have put them from an orthodox Jewish point of view. I won’t pretend to assume the Christian Bible and the Torah won’t have translative differences. In truth any respected pastor will tell you that you must study texts in the original language in order to fully understand and interpret proper context. Thank you for sharing this information. Like me, I think most Christians have only read a contemporary translation of the Word, so they will of course argue only what they know based off what they read. I was always taught that God did not condone polygamy but that didn’t mean it didn’t happen and that God didn’t bless His people because of it. Simply that He loves us in spite of our flaws and sins. It does make sense, however, that at some point God would have allowed polygamy or incestuous relationships. Otherwise, logically speaking, how could we descend from Adam and Eve or how could Noah and his family have repopulated the earth after the flood. I’m sure we will never know God’s reasoning behind something and many will see this as Him contradicting Himself but I get where you are coming from. There is a time and season for everything. God has every right to change His mind if He wishes. He is God after all! We as man are so flawed and yet insist on putting Him in a box and creating our own rules for Him.

          • I’d rather listen to Rabbeinu Yeshua over Rabbeinu Gershom.
            By the way, how is this conversation relevant to what Carlos wrote?

          • Is that anything like God making David’s son rape his wives? Yes, wives. God had no problem with multiple wives and he punished David by having his son rape his wives IN PUBLIC, and then slowly killing his baby over 7 days of suffering. God is love!

          • Forcing a woman to marry the man who raped her is just God making “something good out of a seemingly horrible situation.”

            Wow, just wow. That’s some seriously messed up and and anti-human thinking.

          • What is this chart supposed to mean to me? They are all heterosexual situations – some combination of male/female. This does nothing to bolster the case for same-sex marriage.

          • Curiously missing is man+man and woman+woman. This is because homosexuality is an abomination to God. It is NEVER condoned in the Bible!

          • So is eating certain meats. So is going against your parents wishes. So is lying. So is countless other things. Sin is sin. No one here is free of it. I sure as hell bet you aren’t free of it. Mind your own business, let people do whatever the hell they want. Its not affecting you. Get a life.

          • The Bible relates what was going on at the time. That does not mean that all of this situations was what God wanted, just what man was doing.

          • Hummmm…… one day you will stand before the Author of those “fables” and give an account for your unbelief. God has freely given you an open door to eternal life through His Son, Jesus Christ. All you have to do is believe. Choose wisely while the clock is still ticking …… the hour is very late for planet earth.

          • That is your opinion, and I thank you for responding politely. I believe in the Bible, but even if I didn’t, the chart is not an accurate representation of what is said to the Bible.

          • Waddle on back to your trailer park hog and turn on the tv before you miss your alternative family on Springer.

          • The chart you have is NOT what the Bible says. The chart is using most of the Old Testament which is before the death of Christ on the cross and included as a source of history. The New Testament clearly states marriage is a MAN and a WOMAN. You don’t have to believe for we all have ‘freewill’ …but those of us that believe in Him and His Word know what He says!
            The bible warns of False Prophets, those in wolf clothing, those distorting His word, and Satan’s lies!

        • God’s truth says hatred is an abomination, yet your name is democratsblow? Please make up your mind I’m very confused here??

      • This analogy is absurd, especially the slavery reference. Have you considered they are slaves to their own flesh, just like heterosexuals are slaves to porn. Biological truth? hah! What about bi-sexuals? Are they only attracted to males and females? Is bestiality a biological truth?

        • No, one’s sexuality means whom one is attracted to, not only sexually, but mentally, emotionally, and physically. If, presumably, you’re a male who is only attracted to women (or vice-versa), then you’re a heterosexual. Homosexuals (gays/lesbians) are only attracted to the same gender. Bisexuals are attracted to both genders. It has little to do with being a “slave to their own flesh,” since isn’t necessarily a sexual thing. Whether one actually has sex or not has no bearing on his/her orientation.
          Bestiality is a paraphilia: a sexual fetish.

          • You misinterpreted the meaning of “being a slave to their own flesh.” You were in your flesh when you read it. It’s Christian lingo.

          • You’re the first comment I’ve seen with common sense. Thank you for informing them.

          • Isn’t this whole debate about acting out on those attractions and having no control (i.e. “born that way”) over those desires? You can clinically categorize all you want, but at some point people make a choice to follow those feelings and desires and eventually even embrace the choice and let that define their whole personhood.

          • So you’re saying that gay and lesbian people should be required to live their lives without the possibility of romantic love or intimacy? Forcing them to marry members of the opposite gender has resulted in nothing but divorces and broken homes.

          • NO you are saying that! That’s your spin. There you go, defining people based on their sexual orientation. Whose forcing anything? Did someone put a gun to their head? What has led to divorces and broken homes is people searching for fulfillment in sexual relations rather than sacrificial love based on commitment and a desire to do what’s best for everyone NOT just their own selfish desires and temporal feelings.

          • You continue to conflate orientation with sexual desire. People often recognize their orientation before they even know what sexual activity is. Like I said, gay people are NOT attracted to the opposite gender physically, sexually, emotionally, or mentally. That is the way they are born. That is what gayness IS, and you would rather they live their lives in depression and desperation because of it. People are committing suicide because of oppression against their orientation. People do not commit suicide just because they can’t get the kind of sex they want.

          • Gay used to mean “happy” and the rainbow used to be a refraction of light through water vapor. You continue to play word games. Who are you to say why someone committed suicide? People who identify themselves as “gay” are more accepted now than anytime in the history of mankind and still committing suicide. I didn’t come up with the term “sexual orientation,” so get off your semantic soapbox!

          • Terry – You make some solid and compassionate points. I think the church needs to recognize that it has a long way to go in affirming gays as valuable human beings despite their sexual orientation. I’m pretty sure everyone here can agree that God loves gay people, and Christians should as well. Having said that, redefining marriage at the federal level will result in a loss of freedom everyone, (see my prior response to you.)

            Why is it not sufficient for gays to be free to love and commit to each other, as they are now? Tax inequalities could be remedied legislatively without redefining the unique institution of heterosexual marriage. This country is going to have to figure out a compromise in the civil arena, so that the church can continue to live as it sees fit, and LGBT people can continue to live as they see fit. If the federal government steps in, freedom will go away. Government always equals force.

            Thank you for continuing to argue reasonably in such an emotionally charged discussion.

          • Artboy:
            1. The Public Discourse is a site that is the product of the notoriously bigoted Witherspoon Institute, an anti-gay conservative organization. So I’m not going to address anything from that site, except to say that peer-reviewed scientific and psychological research has ably shown that children in same-sex families do just as well as those in heterosexual families. (Mark Regnerus’ study is an exception, but his study was funded by anti-gay hate groups and has been publicly disavowed by his peers, by his university, and by his professional associations.)
            2. “I’m pretty sure everyone here can agree that God loves gay people, and Christians should as well.”
            I would certainly hope so on both points. That much we can agree on. And by love I mean TRULY love, which means really listening, with an open ear and an open heart, to the testimonies and lives of LGBT people, so many of whom have been victimized by people of faith. No wonder they are eager to go on the defensive: they’ve been shell-shocked.
            3. “Why is it not sufficient for gays to be free to love and commit to each other, as they are now?”
            Because LGBT people are not sufficiently protected from workplace discrimination, from discrimination in public accommodation, and in ensuring that their families are provided for. So much of the public erroneously think there are systems widely in place to ensure this, but sadly this is not the case.
            3. “Tax inequalities could be remedied legislatively without redefining the unique institution of heterosexual marriage.”
            Without getting politics into the discussion, this actually happened on the federal level a couple of years ago, with the current administration choosing to recognize legal (where performed) same-sex marriages. States are not bound by this, however.
            At any rate, LGBT activists made the push nationwide roughly a decade ago to try to achieve civil unions. Social conservatives screamed bloody murder, saying that civil unions were a “slippery slope” to legalizing same-sex marriage. Now that same-sex marriage is legal in a plurality of states, they suddenly want LGBT people to be content with civil unions — even though where they have been enacted, civil unions have not carried all the legal benefits as civil marriage. Sorry, but you can’t have it both ways.
            At any rate, when LGBT people call for marriage, it’s mostly CIVIL marriage they’re talking about. No one has ever suggested that clergy should have to officiate at any wedding their church/synagogue/mosque does not sanction. Civil marriages and religious marriages (“holy matrimony”) are two completely different things in this country and always have been. That, in itself, comprises the “compromise in the civil arena” you speak of. The only question truly at hand is whether, since the U.S. Constitution guarantees equal protection under law, states are allowed to discriminate by gender on civil marriage licenses, and whether they are compelled to recognize civil marriages performed by states whose qualifications differ from their own.
            4. I respectfully differ from your statement that “government always equals force.” By its every institution from the Declaration of Independence and the U.S Constitution, the central role of government is to provide for the common welfare of its citizens. The only “force” government should enact on its citizens is the enforcement of law based on the Constitution. As the current situation currently stands, several states are arguably in violation of that equal protection clause.
            In short, gay people simply want what all families want: equality under the law, regardless of what others’ religion (or lack thereof) believes about them, without prejudice or ill will toward the marriages of their straight families, coworkers, and friends.

          • Terry – You say, “The only “force” government should enact on its citizens is the enforcement of law based on the Constitution.” But that’s precisely my concern. If the SCOTUS finds a right to gay marriage, the gov will be obligated to enforce the new definition on everyone, regardless of belief. You say clergy won’t be forced to officiate gay weddings, but this isn’t at all certain. You’re of course free to ignore it, but the Public Discourse link I provided (above) documents how gay marriage in Canada has seriously curtailed religious freedom.

            As for “equality under the law,” I don’t think it’s quite that simple. Marriage is by definition a heterosexual institution, and is therefore not a “right” that everyone can lay claim to, even among heterosexuals. There is simply no rational reason for the redefining process to stop with gay couples, once it begins.

            For example, are you for Full Marriage Equality, or only for gay marriage equality?
            Redefining marriage to include gays only is discriminatory. Please visit this site and read some of the case studies before replying: http://marriage-equality.blogspot.com/p/case-studies.html
            If the incest taboo falls, it will affect every family by introducing and legitimizing possibilities that should not exist in the intimacy of a family setting. This is serious stuff.

          • 1. Nowhere where same-sex marriage rights have been recognized have any clergy been forced to officiate same-sex weddings. To the contrary, there have been several real-life cases in which clergy have wanted to officiate them cannot due to state law. This was the subject of at least one of the amicus briefs filed before the Supreme Court.
            2. The Public Discourse link you furnished fails to document even one case of discrimination against people of faith based on same-sex marriage law. Not even one. The rights of religious people on this basis have never been eroded.
            3. You try to employ the slippery slope fallacy in talking about incest and polygamy. The link you furnished to that effect is the fringest of the fringe: no one in this debate is advocating for incest or polygamy, nor as you say is legitimizing them logical in the very least. We are simply talking about marriage-eligible adults being able to marry the natural human objects of their love, regardless of orientation.
            Furthermore, the fact that we do not have legal polygamous marriage is proof that we as a society have precedent of “redefining” (as you call it) marriage.

          • Terry, you wrote, “The rights of religious people on this basis have never been eroded.”

            Not sure what you mean. I’m sure you’re aware of several small business owners who previously served gay customers, but were then subsequently fined or sued for refusing to participate in gay marriage celebrations. Also, during the the Supreme Court oral arguments, Solicitor General Donald Verilli admitted to Alito that religious schools holding to the view that marriage is only between a man and a woman could lose their nonprofit tax exempt status if the gov recognizes SS marriage.

            “Slippery slope fallacy”? I’m asking you for the reasoning that would allow gay marriage to be recognized, but would forbid a loving, consenting, adult incestuous relationship. I can’t come up with a reason. By your logic we can’t use religious arguments, tradition, or the ick factor. And it doesn’t matter how “fringe” these people are. Part of the purpose of our legal system is to protect the rights of minorities, especially. Why is it okay to refuse these people the same right you feel that you should have?

          • Your argument conflates the federal definition of marriage with what marriage is to an individual. This country has a long history of recognizing different types of marriages. At a minimum, since the passage of DOMA, there has been at least two officially sanctioned forms of marriage: state-sanctioned marriage and federal-sanctioned marriage. Tying the definition of marriage to the federal definition of the institution implicitly says that you recognize the federal government’s definition of marriage as the authoritative or definitive form of marriage. However, from a religious standpoint, a state (I use this merely to mean government sanctioned, not state in the federalism sense) sanctioned marriage has nothing to do with whether the parties involved are married per the conditions of God. Similarly, the fact that a religion might recognize a marriage has no legal meaning absent some concurrent state recognition. Put otherwise, your church might very well marry two people, and they would be married per your religious beliefs, and assuming you’re ultimately correct, married before God. Yet, that marriage would be utterly meaningless to the government, and for legal purposes, if it fails to meet the pre-conditions required for state-sanctioned marriage.

            Thus, the bottom-line is that elevating state-sanctioned marriage to become the authoritative last word of marriage fundamentally demeans marriage in the spiritual context, which would be what actually circumscribes freedom and liberty. It is comparable, in essence, to saying that there is an incursion of freedom if the federal government were to change the definition of who is eligible for SSI or Medicare.

            The underlying problem with your argument is that you equate legal marriage with religious marriage. The argument does nothing, as a conceptual matter, to contest the concept of same-sex marriage because, at its most fundamental level, legal marriage is meant to define relationships between individuals and their government, to control the patterns of behavior of citizens to certain public policy goals, and to create presumptions in property rights and the allocation of resources. These goals are not the reasons God intended for marriage, and to argue that legal marriage should equate to religious marriage demeans both, and achieves the goals of neither.

            Changing the federal definition of marriage does not affect how the Church construes marriages, and it does nothing to force a given church to accept the legitimacy of a marriage, since churches are not engaged in dispensing state benefits and adjudicating inheritances and property rights (except certain limited exceptions).

            The only hypothetical in which freedom becomes embroiled in the discussion is if the federal government were to compel individual churches to accept its definition of marriage as legitimate. This would raise a multitude of first amendment issues, and also violate RFRA, not to mention being politically unpalatable for every conceivable politician.

          • Modlib – I pretty much disagree with everything you’ve said here. I almost agreed with your last paragraph until the last 7 words. Did you miss the governor and legislature of Indiana recently buckling under pressure to change a perfectly sound state RFRA?

            No, I am not conflating/equating legal and religious marriage. Evangelicals aren’t going to dump Jesus’s definition of marriage (Mat 19:4-6,) regardless of what the state does. This debate is about the definition and reason for marriage at a public policy level. I’m contending that it has to do with children – otherwise why should the government be involved in romantic entanglements at all? It is in the state’s interest to see every new generation become productive, contributing citizens, obviously. We know that children raised by their married, biological parents are most likely to become such citizens. If couples don’t care for the babies they make, the costs to society are great. It makes perfect sense for the state to create incentives for heterosexual couples to commit lifelong marriage because hetero sex often produces children. Gay sex never does.

            Furthermore, if we can redefine one aspect of traditional marriage, there is simply no rational reasoning that would forbid other aspects from being redefined. This will effectively render the term “marriage” meaningless at a general societal level, (though not within the church.) Examples provided upon request.

          • So if you don’t put a gun to someone’s head you’re not forcing them. Interesting.

          • There goes the spin again. I was making an absurd comment based on the above comment which is equally absurd that they are being forced to marry the opposite sex. Bruce was never forced to marry her, he seems to have made a choice. He’s denying his actual gender based on feelings. Figure it out.

      • “We are simply acknowledging God’s biological truth that pedophiles are only attracted to children.” Tell me, on a logical level, how is this any different from what you just said? Why can’t we extend your principle of “its biology” to anything we see fit? Obviously that’s not ever going to be ok in any society that I’ve ever heard of, and is an extreme example. But where you are drawing the line on how far we take this concept is already too far according to Romans chapter 1. But I guess Paul doesn’t know what truth is, and we should probably just scratch half the new testament. Or maybe we can just bend the truth to our own liking instead.

        Setting the bible aside because not everyone who will read this believes in it; There are many people who identify as gay who will tell you they made a choice to be gay, and that they weren’t born that way. I find it amusing that the leaders of the LGBTQ community will write those people off as confused and disagree completely saying “you just didn’t know you were gay yet.” How disabling. You can’t even have a choice anymore.

        We humans like to label people. So we labeled people gay. That is not who they are, its just a label. To confuse who we are and what we do is a huge error, and a cop out. Everyone has inclinations to behave certain ways, some of it is nature, some of it is nurture. I really don’t understand how people come up with the idea that if I were to decide I liked men, this act is ALWAYS 100% nature and has nothing to do with my own choice, has nothing to do with my upbringing, or any psychological factors for that matter. Everyone is different in this sense.

      • Terry – A redefinition is certainly underway; gay marriage is not simply the addition of another group to the institution of marriage. Marriage, in whatever form, has always been the formation of a new, potentially procreative, family unit. Hetero sex often produces offspring, and if the 2 parents of their own offspring don’t raise their own kids, it costs society. Thus monogamous, lifelong, heterosexual marriage benefits society in an way that no other kind of relationship does.

        Your examples are thought provoking. But there was never justification for excluding blacks and women in the first place, according to our own founding documents, and so these wrongs were righted. However, today we have pluralism and freedom – gays are free to live with whomever they want, adopt and raise children, and even find a church that will “marry” them. Whereas blacks were forbidden citizenship, and women were forbidden to vote, by law. What is at stake here is marriage being redefined at the federal level. If this happens, the new, arbitrary definition will be imposed onto the rest of society at the cost of everyone’s freedom.
        ( An example from Canada: http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2015/04/14899/ )

  6. My impression is that men who feel like women inside most likely suffer from demonic oppression. I believe that there is a demon of homosexuality, which tries to get men to feel and behave like women and causes them to have sex with other men. So I fully understand that anyone(with some form of conscience) battling with this demon would feel very depressed, and would want to commit suicide because of the shame and inner torment. Lets face it; it is a very unatural thing for a guy to want to get fucked in the ass by another guy. This concept can only come from the Devil, whose purpose is to steal, kill, and destroy!

    • David – he said in the interview that he is not attracted to other men, so your offensive remark is off base. I think you could have made your point without being vulgar.

    • You, my dear sir, are a bigoted, backwoods, backwards, uneducated asshole, that has no concept of the love jesus taught

      • Well, at least I don’t suck cock! And btw it does clarify in the bible that those WHO practice homosexuality will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. It’s an abomination and an abhorent insult against God Almighty!

        • Well, at least I don’t suck cock!

          Yeah! And at least you weren’t born black (or another ‘lesser’ skin color,) or poor, or without a penis!

          BTW, do you like performing cunnilingus?

        • You sound like a good Christian man. Do you believe everything that is in the Bible? Careful – this may be a trick question.

    • My impression is that without your belief that there is a demon of homosexuality, which tries to get men to feel and behave like women and causes them to have sex with other men and your belief that homosexuality can only come from the Devil, that you’d feel really silly for writing guy to want to get fucked in the ass by another guy.

  7. You people still have it all wrong. The LGBT community doesn’t want friends who will love them despite their “sin” — they want people to not think they’re SINNING BECAUSE IT’S NOT A SIN! These articles you write are pointless and so very insulting. The fact that you can’t see that makes your “love” laughable.

    • Agreed 100%. Also, many scholars have concluded that First Timothy, along with Second Timothy and Titus, are not original to Paul, but rather an unknown Christian writing in Paul’s name some time in the late-first-to-mid-2nd century. With that in mind, the verses that speak of homosexuality can be deemed as unauthentic and not original.

      Regardless, this article is insulting. LGBT want acceptance, not to be converted through “love”. They want to be gay, bi, or transgender and not even have deal with questioning whether it’s right or wrong. It should be normalized and no body thinks twice about it.

    • Thank you for your thoughts Camille. But I don’t need them to agree with me. I want them to know God’s love. And the only way for them to do that is by me loving them, like Christ has loved me. And I do hope my love is “laughable” – We have enough serious, angry, it’s-not-really-nice kind of love in the church. I might be wrong. Bit it feels right to choose love above everything else.

      • Carlos – Thank you for writing this article. One of the people closest to me is transgender. Through her, God has recently given me the grace to show His love to many other trans people who quite frankly think that “all Christians” think that they are freaks and hate them. I find myself sharing God’s love, and explaining that Jesus doesn’t pick and choose who He loves…. He came for everyone. Very often I feel that they have heard a lot about judgement, but nothing about His grace and love. Blessings to you.

  8. I love this! We are called to share Jesus’ love. The opening quote is completely epic! “I’m not sure there’s anything worse than causing those whom God loves, to question whether God loves them.” ~Tullian Tchividjian.

    I really think this nailed it on how Jesus would see Bruce – he’s the one Jesus loves.

    Most of us are very fortunate to not have our struggles plastered all over the media for the world to judge. I cannot even fathom what that must be like for him and it makes my heart break. I don’t care what the LGBT community wants or doesn’t want; what I care about are the people – the individuals who are aching for love and reaching out for it with both hands and still coming up empty because the only love that is satisfying is the love of Christ. We have a responsibility (and privilege) as Christians to share that with everyone, including LGTBs (perhaps even more so). Let’s show love. ‪#‎jesusloves‬ ‪#‎ilovebruce‬

    • “Most of us are very fortunate to not have our struggles plastered all over the media for the world to judge.”

      While I don’t disagree with the rest of your post, he has chosen to make this a public matter.

      • He was a public figure the minute he became a world athlete. He has had photographers following him since then. If I were him, I could see how it may seem to be an easier option to just come out in the open about it to stop the swirling rumors.

        Regardless of the choice of publicity or not, my comment still stands true, “Most of us are very fortunate to not have our struggles plastered all over the media for the world to judge” and he still needs love. Sitting and squabbling over the semantics of someone else’s trials (i.e. if he intentionally made them public or not for whatever reason) doesn’t advance the message of the Gospel.

  9. As a distance runner in high school and Marathoner as an adult, I used to
    look up to ‘him’ and ‘his’ Olympic accomplishments. Obviously, that train
    has left the station. Will ‘he’ do ‘the right thing’ now and give ‘his’
    medals back? They were after all, for a male athlete?

    Or better, shouldn’t ‘he’ be disqualified? Someone call the Olympic Committee?

    What about the Wheaties box? Money well spent?

    • Not sure I understand your point. He is and was physically a male at the time he won the gold. Why would he give it back?

    • While I sort of see where you could feel this way (and by sort of I mean not at all, but to each their own I guess), at the time of Bruce’s Olympic achievements, he identified himself as a male, whether or not he was struggling with his gender identity. He was completely a male, just the same as any other male he competed against.

      What you’re saying could be comparable to me saying, “*insert comedian’s name here* won this award for best comedian, but they were struggling with thoughts of suicide at the time so even though they were ‘funny’, they should be disqualified for how they were feeling inside”. (that was an awful comparison, but hopefully you see my point.)

      Point being, despite however Bruce Jenner was feeling inside at the time of his winnings, he was a male, for all intents and purposes. His internal struggles at this point had no effect on him winning the Olympics. In no way would Bruce giving his medals back be the ‘right right’. That’s like saying I have to give back my first grade soccer trophy because I currently suck at soccer, or my 5th grade math medal because I absolutely despise math now. It just doesn’t make sense.

      • No, actually it’s like saying I robbed a bank 10 years ago and they just found out so I shouldn’t be prosecuted for theft cuz it was way back when? Accountability! Just sayin’!

        • Could you explain your thought behind that? I don’t quite understand how that would work. Just because Bruce may have felt like he was supposed to be a woman throughout his life doesn’t make him physically any less of a man at any point, until he actually transitions.

        • I don’t at all understand your logic for that argument, but I would appreciate it if you could explain!

  10. Bless you for understanding Love.

    bless you for being one bright shining voice in a sea of fear and hatred.

    Bruce’s choice is not ours to judge, let alone condemn.

    Nor is anyone elses.

  11. This is a wonderful article, and I am so glad it touches on the fact that we as Christians should not feel above everyone else. However, I want to point out this verse- ” The LORD does not look at the things people look at. People look at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.” 1 Samuel 16:7. No one but God and Bruce can see into the heart of Bruce, as we can only see the flesh. If one truly has a heart of a female, I am not going to tell them that they are male, nor that they are sinning, for I cannot see all of what God has created. Instead, I will leave the judgement to the Lord, and love those who are struggling with what I can neither fathom nor understand. -M

  12. I enjoyed this article and do agree with the heart of it, but in the article it was stated that God made Bruce Jenner to be loved. That is simply not correct. We were all created to reflect and be representations of the glory of God. Rejecting who and how God made you does not bring Him glory. I agree that though I sin differently and have different struggles, the sin in my own life muddies up God’s glory. However, I felt that it should be mentioned that we are not here on this earth to be loved and doted on by God (though through His grace and His Son’s sacrifice, His love is a by product.) We, as Christians, are not to say to each other, “I know it’s hard and you’re struggling but it’s alright, your sin is okay.” As fellow Christians, we should be iron sharpening iron, and lovingly challenging each other about the sin in our lives. Although I don’t know Bruce Jenner or really anybody who has openly confessed about being confused with their gender identity, I will pray for all those that are struggling with this issue. I pray that they find their true identity in Christ and are confident in who God made them to be!

  13. Maybe this might aid understanding here:

    A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. by Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70.

    Our study is the first to show a female brain structure in genetically
    male transsexuals and supports the hypothesis that gender identity
    develops as a result of an interaction between the developing brain and
    sex hormones

    Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35

    The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male
    direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing
    nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this
    hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of
    belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are
    programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in
    the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes
    place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of
    the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes
    can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in
    trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at
    birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the
    degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that
    social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or
    sexual orientation.

  14. This article really disgusted me, as a human being. Bruce Jenner is not sinning– the Bible, a book I so deeply believe in, is a book of translation. It’s a book written by men, bits of it left out and edited (Gospel of Mary Magdalene?). But none of that matters.

    Bruce Jenner deserves to be treated with respect, period. Absolutely and completely treated with respect and love. If Bruce Jenner identifies as a woman, than she is a woman. If Bruce Jenner identifies as a man, then he is a man. God did not MESS Bruce Jenner up, this is not a sin or something to work through. Instead, God put beautiful, brave transgender souls on this world to be who they are.

    We are ONLY meant to love. Not to compare ourselves to someone and say “Hey, they sin too!” What they do, whether it is a sin or not in your eyes, is irrelevant. Refusing to acknowledge the pronouns they use or excusing badly behaved Christianity with Bible verses is terrible. I know your point was to accept and love, but I feel as though you aren’t accepting Bruce by acting like this is his/her (unclear as of now what Bruce prefers) dance with the devil.

    LGBTQ people can be Christians. They do NOT deserve to have their sexuality or gender identity questioned or called a sin by anyone. That’s no one’s place outside of God’s, and I doubt God cares about sexual and/or identity when there are so many more things in the world. I’m certain God is much more disappointed in how His children behave around people than He is by how they feel in their hearts.

    Other sins in Leviticus: http://www.buzzfeed.com/omgitsanf/19-things-the-bible-forbids-other-than-homosexuali-b83k#.gmyoorYYr

  15. If we truly love people, then we want to see them free and yes, forgiven. Jesus alone does this. He meets us where we are, in our sinful state, and offers us grace that is transformational! Remember, We are a new creation, the old is gone. If He doesn’t give us freedom from our sin strongholds, then it is not love.

    We are all born into sin. But we are born again into Jesus and brand new.

  16. I will pray for him and hope he finds peace, love and courage for himself without the surgery. He is a man and hopefully he will accept that.

  17. What evidence is there that Christ loved Judas? Christ loves his elect, he does not love those who reject him and who are going to or already in Hell.

    As for the woman caught in adultery, you missed the point of the story. The pharisees were setting Christ up. You see it was illegal under Roman law for the Jews to execute criminals in accordance with the Law of Moses (adultery is a death penalty offense under the law). Furthermore under the law there had to be a court hearing and two pieces of evidence before an execution took place. The pharisees were setting Christ up to either say no to an execution and thus deny God’s law or order an execution wherein Christ would have violated Roman law and would be subject to execution as a result. Christ turns it around on the pharisees, likely knowing they were guilty of the same crime. This passage isn’t about ignoring sin at all.

    As for homosexuals, we do no one any good by pretending that God’s law doesn’t exist on the matter. We do no good to homosexuals telling them God loves them. He doesn’t in their current state. He will only love them if they repent and turn to Jesus Christ. At that point rather than indulging sin like Bruce Jenner is doing, they will be fighting back against it and praying to God for sanctification. We should not suppose ourselves to be nicer than God, after all God calls for the death penalty for homosexual activity.

    • This is incorrect. God loves ALL. He is not an exclusive God– although one must first accept the gift of His Son’s sacrifice on the cross (so in that way it could be considered exclusive).

      John 13:10-12a: 10 Jesus answered, ‘“Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean,though not every one of you.” 11 For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean. 12 When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place…’

      Jesus absolutely loved Judas. I am not sure you have read this passage before, but washing feet in Biblical times was the job of the LOWEST of low servants. All the disciples wore sandals and walked everywhere– sometimes 30+ miles to get from town to town. Their feet were filthy and smelly– not to mention it was taboo that they were at passover, a presumably holy night, and there was no servant to wash their feet. Jesus washed Judas’ feet anyways. If there’s anyone who deserved to have their feet washed, or even to put their feet up, it’s Jesus. Yet he stooped down. He knelt.

      Jesus goes on to say this later in that passage:

      John 13:12b-15:
      ‘“…Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. 13 “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you.’

      Romans 5:8:
      8 “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”

      If Jesus had not only loved a select few, then He would not have died for you or for me, because we’re sinners. YET, He LOVES sinners. He takes their place, and thankfully so! Also, just want to point out that Romans 5:8 contradicts your statement about how God only loves people when they repent and turn to Jesus– because Jesus died for us before we ever did that. That means He absolutely loves sinners– even before they follow Him.

  18. Very good article and great sentiment but, just for clarification: being transsexual is not a “sexuality” and is a very different thing than homosexuality (which is a point Jenner repeated as well)

    One of the very first things that sincere Christians need to do in order to understand how to react to transsexuals is to lay aside the lie that it has anything to do with who we want to have sex with – as long as you think that you’ll never understand anything about us.

  19. I’m new to your blog. My son posted this on his facebook after a family discussion of Bruce Jenner and those that consider themselves transgender. I like several of your points. I don’t agree with everything..which is good because then I would be redundant and that’s tedious. I do have a strong disagreement with your introduction that really bugs me. You say God wants people to be happy. I disagree. I think He wants us to be joyful. Happiness relies on happenings. Joy is from the Lord. My 24 yr old daughter passed away last year from a freak accident. I have not been happy. In fact I have been really sad. Like the kind of sad that permeates every fiber of my being. Through this past year I have remained Joyful. I have learned that my life isn’t a countdown….it’s a count up. That we can exist heart-full and heartbroken at the same time. That walking in Joy, Thanksgiving and Prayer is possible even in the darkest of places. So, I don’t buy the happy thing. I totally embrace the Joyful heart.

  20. It is sad when these (and any like thinking) thoughts become so soul consuming that we are troubled in the depths of our soul. Perhaps this is a signal that something isn’t right. It is said guilt is ‘sorry you got caught’ fro doing wrong, but shame is knowing that somthing is wrong with you. God created the world and everything in it and said it was “very good.” When our first parents disobeyed and sin and death entered the human equation, mankinds’ delema of living for self or living for others revealed that we can be very selfish and self centered to the point of hurting those around us. God saw the problem and provided the perfect solution, the death of His (righteous) Son Jesus. It is through Jesus’ death that sin was atoned for, once and for all, and God reconciled the world to Himself. God’s love brings us into His family, and keeps us in His family as we live for Him (including walking in His ways). All this is by grace through faith In Jesus. May this be the peace you find that last for all eternity (despite that which troubles you)… Jesus is still the answer!

  21. I think the point of this article, is that God tests us every day. Jesus was compassionate to all. Is our true test to be compassionate to the sinner not their sin. Think about it. It allows no quorum for differing interpretations, just really points to the center of Christianity. Stop using the bible to justify hate or judgment, I think it was meant for love and compassion. Love does not mean you support the sin, but love and acceptance gets someone to stop sinning. When did being awful towards someone really get them to stop sinning? #wwjd

  22. And this is how society is able to push you away from God by brain washing you with articles like that . We have to remember one think and its very important to be able to distinguish that what is accepted in society and what is acceptable to God is 2 differente things. Never base your moral on what’s society accepte or not. Sometimes we are force to accept whats going on in the world but where is my right and my freedom of saying No i do not accepted ? Now we live in a world that minimize sin and If your not ok with that you ended up been the bad guy ? Funny how media make a big deal when sin happen but when an actor become Christian they dont even mention him anymor. Yes God loves us all but that do not mean that i can do what ever i want right ? I have 3 kids and as much as i love them there is still rules to be respected . Its a shame that people that do crazy things are consider hero’s in this world but go figure !!!!!

  23. If you circumcise your sons or intersex children, that would make you a hypocrite. Paul has quite a bit to say about it in Romans and Galatians. God doesn’t make mistakes, so why are you butchering your children’s genitals? This act will not save you, and despite what the Old Testament says (in regard to those of the Jewish faith), Jesus Himself specifically said it was the patriarchs who handed this tradition down, which is a bold thing to say that it’s not a direct order from God (John 7:22-25) as the Torah proclaims.
    Psalm 139:14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well. I praise youbecause I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
    Genesis 1:31 says that God pronounced his creation ‘very good’.

  24. He isn’t gay. He’s a straight man who identifies as a female. So why is the conclusion here “love the gay people, even though they’re sinners”? The conclusion ought to be more like: “The bible can’t handle the complexity of human sexuality and gender identity, and if we don’t recognize this and adjust, science will make us look just as foolish as when our ministers said slavery and segregation were justifiable”.

    • This very conflation with homosexuality (or what the English translations of the Bible now call ‘homosexuality’) is the big fault I saw in this article and with everyone’s comments here but yours so far… It only reveals blind ignorance of the complexity of human sexuality in those condemnation-happy minds.

  25. It sure does start with love and ends with love. One thing we must understand is that Christ’s love is true love because it ends with sinner’s recognition of and repentance from sin and promise of heaven. Without this, there is no true love. Love is not accepting them for who they are and honor their courage to be open about it. Yes, we listen to their pains and sufferings. We hold their hands and pray for them, but TRUE Love is loving the person enough to tell them, compassionately, that they are sinners. Christ’s love is shown when he tells the adulterous woman, “Go and SIN NO MORE.”

  26. In just don’t get how an person who claims to believe in Jesus. And is a pastor. Would come to such conclusions. Obviously Carlos, you are not reading the same bible. I don’t judge Bruce Jenner. But the scriptures clearly say God does. Jesus did not save us to remain in our sins. Your theology is clearly not from the Bible.

  27. How exactly was Nathaniel a racist? If it’s because he asks if anything good can come of Nazareth, note that his home town is in Nazareth making him one of the people.

    Next, Jesus said he had no lies or false ideas. So if he is a racist, Jesus just condoned racism.

  28. Wait… so you think God is a conscious being that is conscious of all people at all times? And every other species? And what about the billions of planets with life sustaining atmospheres?
    why do christians live in such delusion? gender roles change from culture to culture. There was a time men wore make up and high heels.
    You look at the world as it is now as if it is all that has ever been.
    You need to expand your minds.
    In the most profound way.

  29. And just for the record,
    even if homosexuality was a sin, it is no different than every other sin and to act like homosexuals are any different than anyone else is a sin in and of itself.

  30. I’m starting to wonder if the end of evil days and heaven on earth will come, when we all stop worrying about the shell of a person, and start seeing each other as the spirit that we are. A persons race, gender, sexuality, will all be dust, and is only here to house our spirit.

  31. So many comments – people run the spectrum of being angry and insulted to being affirmed and happy. At the end of the day, I believe the take away is to offer something other than judgement, disdain, hate, and fear to those who are in sin and have questions about why. Heartfelt questions. The same grace God gives us in our sin, as we struggle and grapple, God calls us to have towards others. Pick a sin. Any sin. There is grace needed for you, for me, and for others as well.

  32. Unacceptable
    One thing I know is that there is no one perfect.

    Not me. Not you.

    It is always easy to point a finger or say harsh words instead of having a heart of compassion and lifting up another when they are down.

    Jesus is the only perfect One and He said “let him without sin cast the first stone.”

    He said to take the plank out of your own eye before pointing out the speck in another’s.

    He went first to those in the most desperate need… the outcasts of society… the diseased, the broken, the homeless, those with foul habits and filthy language, those that lived socially incorrect lives…people that most of us would avoid.

    You know…. those sinners.

    He wasn’t offended by them. He is not offended by you.

    He loved them. He loves us.

    He never said “well I hope you have learned your lesson because hey you are unacceptable the way you are”.

    He just said “come to Me, all that are weary and heavy laden.”

    He said “let the little children come”.

    He didn’t say “clean up your act and make yourself acceptable first.”

    He knew there was nothing we could do about it.

    Because He loves us so much, He made a choice to do something about the unacceptable and unpresentable condition in which we are born.

    He went to bat for me and you and mine and yours.

    He laid it all down… He gave it all up.

    Nothing was too much for Him to do for us.

    Nothing.

    Because we needed everything He had to give.

    Every scornful accusation He endured.

    Every breath He breathed.

    Every lash of the whip.

    Every blow to His body.

    Every bruise.

    Every thorn.

    Every 9 inch nail.

    Every disgusting dark despicable sin, He became.

    Every disease.

    Every last drop of innocent blood drained from His body.

    He willingly did what we needed Him to do.

    To make us acceptable before God.

    Because we are unacceptable otherwise.

    All He asks from us is that we turn from our sin, believe Him and believe in Him….that we have faith in Him…. that we follow Him.

    from my blog https://neverthelesskt.blogspot.com

  33. God’s looking down, making little Bruce … and then when he’s just finishing he says, ‘Let’s wait a second.’ “God looks down and chuckles a little bit and says, ‘Hey, let’s give him the soul of a female.’” FINE EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE WANT TO THINK , what to do and insinuating that God is making a “mistake” you people make me sick Carlos , always compromising to hellova lot of excuses !! Bruce becomes a bitch because the demons have got him by his balls …( while they there ) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  34. “Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.”

    If Jenner would have acknowledged his statement of being transgender as a sin then this would be a completely different story. The fact however that he not only embraces it, but celebrates it is in no way honoring to the Lord and in no way him going and sinning no more.

    I know your response will be “Don’t cast the first stone, you struggle with sins too”

    You are 100% correct….however IF i struggled with, lets say, pornography…i am not going to go to strip clubs….IF i struggled with getting drunk….I’m not going to binge drink….By Jenner embracing this sin in his life, following through with a surgery for the sex change, and not repenting of it (as the Bible and Jesus commands) it is obvious that he knows the Risen Savior about as well as Judas did.

    My hope and my prayer is that his salvation is genuine and that before he embraces this sin with the excuse of “God made me this way”, he would repent and seek to surround himself with people to lead him closer in a relationship with Christ fighting the sin he struggles with.

    I want to make very clear where i stand on this to avoid the angry comments I know I will receive…Jesus loves Bruce Jenner more than he will ever know….His love for him is able to blot out a multitude of sins and his grace can not be overcome. However, I worship a Christ who has a deep hatred for sin, and although Jenner can be forgiven I believe it is dangerous for you, the author of this blog, to post an entry that leads people to believe embracing their sin is okay because, “Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.”

    You ended your entry by saying:

    “”All I know is that, “God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8

    I know this as truth.

    That’s the superior story.””

    This is reckless and misleading to say…I love Romans 5:8 it is one of my favorite pieces of scripture…I believe it sums up the Gospel perfectly….we did not deserve His grace and He gave it to us when we were sinners because of HIS great love for us.

    However in the context of this story you can not leave out what Paul says one chapter later in Romans 6:1-2 “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it”

    IF Bruce Jenner’s salvation is genuine, which i pray it is, I pray that he would show fruit of that faith in repentance from this sin. (The way scripture calls for it)

    • “If Jenner would have acknowledged his statement of being transgender as a sin then this would be a completely different story”
      ….So where in the Bible, or in the realm of logic, is the connection you are presuming exists between being transgender and “sin”? You have the right to look at it as a form of sickness, similar to a genetic disease, mental illness, depression, etc.. that the love of God is able to heal on some level, but I cannot see how it can be equated to the sins of adultery (or even what English bibles translate as ‘homosexuality’ for the sake of argument), that one can simply do “no more”.

  35. I fully appreciate the biblical-motivated purpose of this article to actually love everyone and not judge or condemn those we have no empathy for. But one major blind spot I noticed is that there is a fundamental fallacy in equating transgender with sexual immorality. Where in the Bible, or in the realm of logic, is the vague connection that is presumed to exist between being transgender and “sin”? I can understand maybe looking at it as a form of sickness, similar to a genetic disease, mental illness, depression, etc.. that the love of God is able to heal on some level, but I cannot see how it can be equated to the sins of adultery (or even what English bibles translate as ‘homosexuality’ for the sake of argument), that one can simply do “no more”.

  36. Homosexuality is different than transgender; this article confused sexual orientation with gender identity.

  37. People just are. It’s our thoughts and beliefs that make all the problems. Thank you for the article!

  38. You’ve built a nice little idol of a god for yourself.

    Jesus said a man must be born again to be saved. After that happens, God’s Spirit leads you into all truth. All men must repent or perish. Jesus said he is the only way to God.

    God does not make jokes and put female souls into male bodies. Satan, on the other hand, is the one laughing.

    Man must accept what he is. Saying that you were meant to be born contrary to what you are is simply a denial of the true self.

  39. I have read most of the comments & I have to say this is all mute. The bible clearly speaks of this discussion. It is important to remember that when Paul spoke of homosexuality in 1 Corinthians 6, homosexuality was rampant in the ancient world. This is not something new it has always been around, so much so that Paul felt a need to address it, just as he did on the subject of suing a brother in Christ. What was his advice? Trust in Christ. This wasn’t only an Old Testament view it is addressed in the New Testament also.
    1 Cor. 6:
    9 Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
    Avoiding Sexual Sin
    12 You say, “I am allowed to do anything”—but not everything is good for you. And even though “I am allowed to do anything,” I must not become a slave to anything. 13 You say, “Food was made for the stomach, and the stomach for food.” (This is true, though someday God will do away with both of them.) But you can’t say that our bodies were made for sexual immorality. They were made for the Lord, and the Lord cares about our bodies. 14 And God will raise us from the dead by his power, just as he raised our Lord from the dead.
    15 Don’t you realize that your bodies are actually parts of Christ? Should a man take his body, which is part of Christ, and join it to a prostitute? Never! 16 And don’t you realize that if a man joins himself to a prostitute, he becomes one body with her? For the Scriptures say, “The two are united into one.”[d] 17 But the person who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with him.
    18 Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body. 19 Don’t you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself,20 for God bought you with a high price. So you must honor God with your body.
    I think that just about says it all! The key is we were all once like this as it says in verse 11. However the key to all of this discussion is also in verse 11, we (Christians) were cleansed, made Holy, made righteous because we called on the name of the Lord & by the Spirit of our God. This is not my opinion, this is what the bible states. It is up to me to live the best life I can, to become His image.
    2 Cor. 3:18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord-who is the Spirit-makes us more and more like Him as we are changed into His glorious image.
    If homosexuality is a sin, then it cannot be of Christ because He knew no sin!
    2 Cor. 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

  40. I
    have read most of the comments & I have to say this is all mute.
    The bible clearly speaks of this discussion. It is important to
    remember that when Paul spoke of homosexuality in 1 Corinthians 6,
    homosexuality was rampant in the ancient world. This is not something
    new it has always been around, so much so that Paul felt a need to
    address it, just as he did on the subject of suing a brother in
    Christ. What was his advice? Trust in Christ. This wasn’t only an Old
    Testament view it is addressed in the New Testament also.
    1
    Cor. 6:
    9
    Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the
    Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual
    sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male
    prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy
    people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these
    will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11 Some of you were once like that.
    But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with
    God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit
    of our God.
    Avoiding
    Sexual Sin
    12
    You say, “I am allowed to do anything”—but not everything is
    good for you. And even though “I am allowed to do anything,” I
    must not become a slave to anything. 13 You say, “Food was made for
    the stomach, and the stomach for food.” (This is true, though
    someday God will do away with both of them.) But you can’t say that
    our bodies were made for sexual immorality. They were made for the
    Lord, and the Lord cares about our bodies. 14 And God will raise us
    from the dead by his power, just as he raised our Lord from the
    dead.
    15
    Don’t you realize that your bodies are actually parts of Christ?
    Should a man take his body, which is part of Christ, and join it to a
    prostitute? Never! 16 And don’t you realize that if a man joins
    himself to a prostitute, he becomes one body with her? For the
    Scriptures say, “The two are united into one.”[d] 17 But the
    person who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with him.
    18
    Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this
    one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body. 19
    Don’t you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit,
    who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to
    yourself,20 for God bought you with a high price. So you must honor
    God with your body.
    I
    think that just about says it all! The key is we were all once like
    this as it says in verse 11. However the key to all of this
    discussion is also in verse 11, we (Christians) were cleansed, made
    Holy, made righteous because we called on the name of the Lord &
    by the Spirit of our God. This is not my opinion, this is what the
    bible states. It is up to me to live the best life I can, to become
    His image.
    2
    Cor. 3:18 So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and
    reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord-who is the Spirit-makes
    us more and more like Him as we are changed into His glorious
    image.
    If
    homosexuality is a sin, then it cannot be of Christ because He knew
    no sin!
    2
    Cor. 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we
    might become the righteousness of God in Him.

  41. I forwarded this article to my pastor because we are addressing these matters in our church right now, but beyond the acceptance of the person, and sharing the message of love, what does ministry to the LGBT community look like in a practical sense? Here are a few brass tacks practical ministry questions.

    If we have a transgender person in our church, do we call that person by their new
    gender identity? Is this acceptable, or is it capitulating? For example,
    I had/have a transgender niece. Born female, named Mia, watched her grow,
    always treated her as a female. She wants to be called Matt now and to be
    referred to with male pronouns. Do we do it, is it disrespectful not to?

    If a transgender, like Bruce Jenner, says he is really a she and thus a woman, but
    wants to be with women, not men, would we, should we, acknowledge that
    relationship? Would that be a lesbian relationship, even if he does not
    get sexual reassignment?

    If a transgender person wants to actually go through sexual reassignment, would it
    be acceptable for a Christian physician to perform the procedure? If a
    Christian physician who attends our church believes it is within his/her moral
    boundaries to do so, do we support that doctor?

    Loving the sinner, hating the sin – always much easier said than done in such
    scenarios. I appreciate what Tchividian has written here, but it is
    only the beginning. It gets so much more complex than this.

    Yes, we can love and must love them, give them audience, care for them, get to know them, listen
    to their story, and while we may say we do not “endorse” them, what is
    considered endorsement? Calling them “she” instead of “he”?
    Acknowledging their relationships with members of the opposite sex, while they
    claim to be the same sex as them? Not addressing the health care
    professionals who involve themselves in sexual reassignment procedures?

    I hope Jesus returns before we really have to wrestle through these questions,
    but if He does not, what do we do? I know we can say we will handle
    things on a case by case basis. But these are the brass tacks issues I
    think we will soon be facing.

    I want a grace culture, I do, but when does grace actually become compromise,
    particularly in these scenarios I have mentioned?

  42. The very fact that you never once said “she” or “Caitlyn” is a blatant act of not love. A human being has asked to be called Caitlyn and because you can’t agree with their actions you disrespect them by calling them the name their parents gave them and referring to them “the way God made them”? God made me with brown hair that I dye blonde and I would really rather not be called a brunette. It would be disrespectful to not call me a blonde. Caitlyn Jenner has made her decision. Respect it. That’s love.

  43. I’ll translate that to mean you have an indefensible point so you copy in cartoons. Thanks for trying to play.

  44. I get what you’re saying here, really, I do. But you haven’t addressed the real issue. The real issue isn’t the Christian condemning the sinner. The real issue is sin itself. There was no question that the woman caught in adultery was caught sinning so it was pretty easy to tell other sinners to cast the first stone only if they were blameless. The real issue isn’t the presentation of the message, it’s the message itself. You may love people the best you can with no malice and no judgement (actually, I don’t believe it’s possible for people to be totally free from judgement but let’s just pretend it is) but as soon as you call someone’s desired behavior “sin” you have become the enemy.

      • Transgender is not a noun, it is an adjective. Do you remember Leelah Alcorn? There are many transgender teens who commit suicide because their family views them this way – as a mental illness, and denies their gender identity. It actually fodders the depression trans people experience. On the other hand, trans people with supportive families are in much better mental health and live on into adulthood to do great things and lead happy, healthy lives.

      • Transgender is not a noun, it is an adjective. Do you remember Leelah Alcorn? There are many transgender teens who commit suicide because their family views them this way – as a mental illness, and denies their gender identity. It actually fodders the depression trans people experience. On the other hand, trans people with supportive families are in much better mental health and live on into adulthood to do great things and lead happy, healthy lives.

    • Right – I’m going to listen to a boingboing article.

      You know what’s really disrespectful? Celebrating a clearly disturbed man’s mental illness. God gave him XY chromosomes – I will continue to call Bruce “he”.

  45. As much as I appreciate the sentiment of this message and the way it shows that Christian views don’t have to mean hating things you don’t agree with, it is pretty disrespectful to refer to Caitlyn Jenner with male pronouns and as Bruce the entire article. Acceptance and love is also being respectful of identity.

  46. I am a Christian. I don’t understand Bruce Jenner or people like him but that’s OK. I don’t even understand myself. I thank Jesus that He does understand and Yes, He does love us all, the murderers, the pedophiles, the prostitutes, the thieves and even the hypocrites although He had more to say about hypocrites than any other sinner in the bible. Indeed, to judge others is not our responsibility but His. Jesus is the only one who knows the heart. While I may not want to ‘boogie down’ with Bruce and vice versa, still, I will respect the love I know Christ has for him and if he needed bread or clothing I would share what I had.

    But I will not applaud sin either. I don’t applaud the sin in my life and I won’t in any other’s life. To use the excuse that he was born that way…all of us are born sinners. Are we to say to a pathological person (born that way) that it’s OK to act on his/her impulses and go out and murder? Where is the line drawn? I don’t judge Bruce for acting on his beliefs, that’s between him and God, but if he wants me to say that it’s Ok because he was born that way, I can’t and won’t.

  47. I don’t think that there is a reasonable person who would disagree with what you have written. However, it’s not what you said but what you didn’t say that is important. I will admit the adaptation of the biblical story was right on and humorous, but you missed the messages that the Biblical passage contained. We aren’t expected not to condemn sin when we see it, rather the passage tells us to not judge others for their sins, and that’s very acutely different from accepting a sinful lifestyle. You glossed over the key words, “go and sin no more.” You see we are called to be like Christ and Christ did not condemn the sinners despite his divinity. Rather, he exhorted them, helped to raise them up. Now there are very hateful people in the world who sadly call themselves Christians, but you shouldn’t be here telling them to shut up and sit down. Jesus didn’s go after the Pharisees saying “yeah, that’s what I thought” he asked them to examine their own lives. He tried to make them better people. So when we see sin, we should call it out, not attacking the person but helping them overcome their own fallen nature. That’s hard to do given that we, ourselves are fallen, but that is why we have people around us. We are all helping each other to become the person that God calls us to be, helping each other let Christ in. And so yeah, Bruce shouldn’t be hated for what he did and we should sympathize as best we can, but that neither changes what is right nor our obligation to the truth. It’s not “well Jesus did it you guys so shut up and sit down,” otherwise why did we spend three years teaching us how to live. No, in the end we are called to love one another and that means witnessing to the truth for the love of your brothers and sisters.

  48. Enjoyed the article. For the church the best way to deal with the high suicide rate among youth who identify themselves as transgender would be to help them understand that they are most beautifully defined by their relationship with God not with their gender identity. Though I might lean toward conservative values, it is good to remember what Jesus used as a metaphor when speaking on the value of singleness: “For there are eunuchs who were born that way from
    their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men;
    and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of
    the kingdom of heaven.” Mat. 19:12. I love how without fear he chooses such a metaphor to indirectly lend a word of compassion to those who are born or in situations where a they struggle to fit into any category gender wise; and in parallel with his point on singleness for someone struggling with the concept of gender and where they fit, He neither directs them to find their healing in the cover of a Vanity Fair coming out leading to a reality show, nor in condemning them for not fitting into a box, but directs them to true fulfillment by finding our identity in Christ first. In extra biblical literature it was also recorded that John the youngest disciple exhibited feminine characteristics. I wonder if Jesus was looking right at him when He said all this. Though pure speculation, is it outrageous to consider Jesus might take on a discipline who struggled with finding his identity in his gender and unwisely mutilated himself for it before he knew Jesus, and spoke lovingly to him on his identity in Christ and what God has called him to. John was never called to be a father or into any romantic relationship as far as we know, but was called into a beautiful relationship with Christ that we see played out in the Bible. What a powerful message from the church that would be to a youth struggling with such an identity issue.

  49. Putting God first will help with all the focus, time, energy, confusion, and pain spent on surgeries, conversations, publicity, and self consumed actions. Every time I find myself neglecting to put God and his ways first, I’m thinking of myself, wasting time and life, and overall discontent.

  50. Carlos, thanks for writing this. This is like a manuscript of the conversation my pastor and I had this morning. Well written.

  51. I find it interesting that you omit the last part of the John 8 story. You leave out the part where Jesus says “Go and sin no more.”

    I agree that Jesus loves Bruce/Caitlyn.
    I agree that Jesus died for Bruce/Caitlyn.
    I agree that God was there when Bruce/Caitlyn was made.
    I agree that Christians can be judgmental and like the Pharisees.

    Where I guess we don’t necessarily agree is that God approves of sin.
    Where i guess we don’t necessarily agree is that God made Bruce a man but gave him the soul of a woman. To make these statements negates the Holiness of God.

    To say that God would create Bruce a male physically but a female in soul implies that God made a mistake or that God is cruel. Wait, we already said that God is a loving God. In fact it is something we agreed on. Perhaps He loves Bruce/Caitlyn so much He sent Jesus to die for him/her even though He knew the future. That is true love. That is God’s love.

    That said, to imply that God approves of sin to me shows a faulty understanding of whom God is.

  52. While I agree with several points in this article, anybody who has ever seriously studied the veracity of the account found in John 8:1-11 knows that John did not pen this story, and that it most likely never happened. To base so much of your view on a section of John’s Gospel that was a later addition to the text seems like a bad idea.

  53. Dear Carlos,
    Unfortunately your article about Bruce Jenner in quoting the verse; “He who is free of sin, throw the first stone.” appeases sinners but neglects the most vital teaching; which is Salvation through Jesus Christ.

    Please be courageous to teach the full chapter of John 8. Where after the men had left, Jesus spoke directly to the woman who committed adultery:

    John 8

    The Adulterous Woman

    8 But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2 Early in the morning He came again
    into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and
    began to teach them. 3 The scribes and the Pharisees *brought a woman caught in
    adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, 4 they *said to Him, “Teacher,
    this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now in the Law Moses
    commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?” 6 They were saying
    this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus
    stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. 7 But when they persisted
    in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, “He who is without sin
    among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again He stooped
    down and wrote on the ground. 9 When they heard it, they began to go out one by
    one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where
    she was, in the center of the court. 10 Straightening up, Jesus said to her,
    “Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?” 11 She said, “No one,
    [a]Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no
    more.”

    After receiving Christ, His love and forgiveness, Jesus says “Go and sin
    no more”.

    Although your article speaks of God’s love and forgiveness, the people reading it may now be thinking what Bruce Jenner is doing is ok. That any sin is ok, and that no one should “cast a stone” because God loves us no matter what we do.
    Please Carlos be more courageous in your articles and don’t try to please people. We are accountable to God first. Yes, continue to teach of God’s love and forgiveness for us, but also express to others that repentance and obedience to God is crucial. And that when we receive Jesus, we are to leave our old lifestyle of sin and death behind and go forward as a New Creation in Christ Jesus – Born again through the power of the Holy Spirit. For God is HOLY, and we are called to GLORIFY Him in our Hearts, our Minds, and with our Bodies.

    Remember what Jesus told Peter; Matthew 16:23? “Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

    Carlos, without the full teaching of the gospel we might become a stumbling block to the salvation of God’s children who are lost.

    Sincerely in Christ,

    Linda Breheim

    ROMANS 8″13: “So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh– 13for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the
    deeds of the body, you will live. 14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.…”

  54. I agree with not being judgmental, but you have to be an idiot to see that the church hasn’t been filtrated with that mentality. You just had fuel to the fire by giving it attention. This is a sin just like pornography, alcoholism, stealing ect ect. Christ says he doesn’t condemn us but to SIN NO MORE. He didn’t say “hey, its all good, just keep on keeping on”.

  55. Christians do not have to judge homosexuals. GOD did that for us and found homosexuals to be severely lacking. As for bwuce jenner, he’s just another attention/publicity obsessed wh*re like the rest of his degenerate family.

  56. perverts is perverts and that includes those perverts who engage in the sickening, disgusting sexual pervertsion of incest, homosexuality, coprophagia, bestiality, necrophilia, pedophilia, object sexuality, bigamy, etc.

  57. The problem with this analogy is LBGT people refuse to call it a sin! They celebrate it and are trying to politically force others to comply or be publicly shamed! The facts are many were abused sexually at an early age or simply told they exhibited traits that resembled homosexuality and found acceptance in those circles. Yes, we need to show compassion and love towards all people understanding that gender identity disorder is just that, a disorder.

  58. Well said! I responded to another, much less compassionate (if at all) article with this:
    Working in the mental health field, as I have for over 25 years, brings a
    different perspective. There are physical ailments, for which we usually
    go to the physical ‘dr’ for assistance in resolving. And there are
    mind/heart ailments for which we, when able because society often
    discredits this type of ailment, best seek a mind/heart ‘dr’ for
    assistance in resolving, such as with grief/loss, abuse recovery,
    domestic violence, war trauma (ptsd), etc. If one has not worked with
    people with broken hearts/minds or histories of any kind of abuse, then
    they ought to keep quiet, imo, for it reflects ignorance just as opining
    about physical ailments being contrived reflects ignorance; how well do
    we know our physical or psychological bodies as God has created them:
    heart, soul, mind and body?
    I have seen, working with those with mind/heart ailments, find healing
    with God’s help because He heals this kind of stuff for only He knows
    the heart/mind, He says, repeatedly in His Word.

  59. First of all, calling Caitlyn “Mr. Jenner,” is an insult. Along with the use “him.” Regardless of your beliefs, a post about loving and being there for someone ends up being a contradiction when you add in disrespect.

  60. I’m surprised by your condescending tone in stylizing those who will not adopt your line of thought as modern day “Pharisees.” “If your theology makes you feel superior to others, rethink your theology.” Sage advice, perhaps you should heed it.

  61. I very much enjoyed your thought provoking article.

    I do want to point out that gender identity and sexual orientation are different. When Bruce Jenner becomes Caitlyn Jenner it won’t change her attracts to women.

  62. It’s interesting, you admit in the article that what Jenner has done is a sin. And yet, you’re trying to broach the subject in a “loving” way. For so many of us without a personal knowledge of the man, all we are left to debate are the actions and the theological consequences.

    I was born, like most guys, with a certain attraction for females. God did NOT make men so that when they got married they lost that attraction to all the other women. Even though I was “born this way” it would be no excuse to cheat on my wife. Why do we excuse a different standard with the rest of the sexual spectrum? If I want to be true to my feelings I should just go out and have sex with all these other people I’m attracted to right?

  63. This man knows nothing about what it is like to be LGBT or what it is like to be Transgender, because he is NOT either of these things.How can he speak on these issues in such a condescending way? The word Homosexual was made up in the late 1800’s to describe mental illness and Christian publishers have done themselves and true believers a great disservice by printing it in their texts. The true greek translation for the book of Romans is “Pederist”, or Pedophile if you will. Not every straight man or woman is a Pedophile. This goes for gays and lesbians roo. Know our texts and their true translations.

  64. This is all very well, but consider this: not referring to Caitlyn as Bruce. Not referring to Caitlyn as “him” or “Mr.” Or “he”. But actually treating her like the woman she is and using her proper name and pronouns. If you aren’t TRYING to do this, you ARE throwing the stones.

  65. Faith has created severe superiority issues. Using your faith as justification to hate warrants its abolishment.

  66. of course God loves him. HE loved him enough to come down in the form of man to cleanse his sin. Man sinned and it was man that had to be given for a sacrifice for sin. JESUS was that sacrifice. AND whenever Jenner truly repents the Lord will be waiting to help him (unless he is reprobate or God has stopped extending grace which does happen in some instances. LOOK at Ananias and Sapphira.) . AND so ….God loves his soul but does not love his sin.

  67. You didn’t finish the story. Jesus told the woman to “Go and sin no more.” He didn’t say “I uderstand you enjoyed having sex with a man that wasn’t your husband so go and have sex with every man you want…” NO! He didn’t accept the sin, he forgave the sin and sent her back to her life as the wife of her first husband. I’m so sick and tired of people saying that just because we are commanded to love one another that means openly accepting their sin. This has NEVER been the case. Whenever Jesus forgave sins or healed people he would instruct them to go through what the law said and present themselves to the priests or he would send them on their way saying “Your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more.” Just because Bruce is confused about his sexuality doesn’t mean we as Christians need to accept his life of sin. Its our job to help Christians come back to a life pleasing to God. We are not supposed to judge those who are Christians because its not fair to impose God’s laws on those who do not follow God. but as a self-proclaimed Christian, Bruce’s responsibility was to change his life so it honors God, not to give in to the sin and claim that God made a mistake in making him. I’m sorry, but you are completely wrong in your characterization of Jesus in this post. Jesus clearly said that he came to bring a sword that would separate father from son and mother from daughter and even bone from marrow. He came to show that there is a way out of our sinful life through forgiveness and REPENTANCE, not forgiveness and surrendering to the sin. Paul says that with every temptation there is a way out so that we can endure it. Bruce didn’t look for the way out he looked for the way deeper into the sin.

  68. “It ends by getting rid of the rocks, and the stones.” That is a great idea! But know that when you misgender us and don’t afford is the decency of respecting core parts of ourselves, you are not getting rid of them. You may think that by not immediately hating us, by not using slurs or disconnecting from us, you have dropped them. And that is such a good first step so many need to take. But it’s not all, it’s not enough, and it won’t allow LGBT activists and Christians (or specifically, non-LGBT Christians, since many Christians are LGBT) to discuss as friends.

    • I will continue to try and understand the journey of those who are transgender and I will try my best to love and understand even if we never fully agree on the verbiage. Friendship is the way. Christ is the way. Lets walk the road together.

  69. I do not think we should help establish the foundation of Sodom and Gomorrah in America..I have never abused a homosexual but at times have defended them…..It is not the people I have a problem with..

  70. This was hard to read. The author thinks he’s being magnanimous by treating a transgender person just like any other sinner: gays, prostitutes, thieves, etc.

    Sanctimonious prick.

    Try to be a more decent person.

  71. I love what you are saying here. As a supporter of the LGBT community and even as a relatively non-spiritual person, this is perfect. You’re sending out a message of love and equality. That is truly what followers of Christ should accept.

  72. Note to anyone coming to comment section: They missed the point. Every single one of ’em.

  73. Does the author of this article understand “transgender” and “homosexuality” are not interchangeable terms? They are categorically different. Transgender is about gender identity; homosexuality is about sexual attraction. One can be transgender and not be homosexual. A basic understanding of the differences would benefit the author as he attempts to form his argument. “Transgender” does not equal “homosexual.” Please know what you are talking about when discussing these complicated issues, it’s irresponsible to do otherwise and you are putting out misinformation.

    I’d also like to throw out there that Caitlyn may not be broken, confused, tired, or alone…she may be more whole, certain, alive, and free than ever. Despite the author’s stated intent to do otherwise, he continues to make many judgments upon Caitlyn to fit her into his belief of what’s right or wrong. It just sounds less obviously judgmental b/c it’s framed as love.

    Loving others is great. But the love you purport is not without condition or subversive judgement.

  74. Man, I do believe in the calling as Christians to love everyone. It’s not our place to judge, but it’s not our place to idly stand by. Just as everything written above is true concerning Jesus’ love for all the sinners of the world whether it was Saul the prosecutor, Matthew the tax collector, the various women committing adultery, or even the entire town of Nineveh. Indeed Jesus loves us all, but he loved them into change. He not only loved the sinners, but through his love he changed them. All of them turned from their ways and followed him. We all sin every day whether its the white lies or big lies, but the difference with these people was that it was their life style just as Caitlyn Jenner is choosing. She is choosing a sinful lifestyle. The hardest part of it all is she is doing this in the name of Christ. She identifies as a Christian. For those who are fellow believers we sure are to love her as a brother or sister in Christ, but we are also called to confront her. Just as Matthew 18:15-20 states. It is one of the most misinterpreted Bible passages but in the context of what it is written it is all about confrontation within the church. As believers in Christ we are to first love and second confront the sins of our brothers and sisters in love. It is absolutely possible to confront someone without judging them. As Christians we have the Bible to turn to and to compare our lives to since Jesus’s life is the ultimate life to be following. Love does not mean to accept and idly stand by, love in the Christian sense is to be so concerned with the well being of the soul and identity of the person you are willing to step out and direct them onto the correct path according to the Bible. I urge people, especially Christians, to love so much it changes people to follow Christ’s example. I firmly believe being transgender is not following Christ’s example, and since Caitlyn Jenner identifies herself as a Christian it is our job as Christians to love her into change once again, the change to be more of Christ and less of herself. Her identity to should burn with passion to be more like Christ, not more of herself and what she believes is more comfortable being. May we love people earnestly and with a genuine love that changes people to be more like Christ.

  75. I believe in the KJV Bible. If one believes the teaches of Jesus Christ you know we are to love everyone….including the sinner. We are all sinners and told to turn from our sins not to toss in the towel and give up the fight. I fight my demons everyday and not willing to let them win! I have freewill to believe what the Bible says….call that religion…fine….call it whatever you want too…..everything has a title/label….for me it boils down to Him and what He says….NOT what MAN SAYS~ I don’t believe we are created by mistake….demons confuse and mislead those willing to listen!

  76. Jesus Christ said in John 6:63, “…the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT, and they are LIFE.” And the first time Satan attacks the human race was a direct attack on the word of God!

  77. If you want to show love to the LGBQT community, how about choosing to address her as she has asked. Instead of using her old name why not show respect and compassion. Your post is like teaching about respecting vegans while chewing on bacon.

  78. And Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery, “…go and sin no more”. The same as he says to all those who come to Him and surrender their lives.
    “God cannot be mocked. The man or woman who sows to their flesh will from their flesh reap corruption, but the man or woman who sows to the Spirit will reap eternal life.” This scripture applies to every person, Bruce Jenner included. Sometimes we need to deny ourselves, our flesh, and follow Him. Is it always easy? No. Is it worth it? A thousand times yes!

  79. All we need to remember is, God does NOT make mistakes. Bruce Jenner decided God, in essence, made a mistake. Sorry, but this is the worst kind of a abomination against God and his teachings. Jesus forgave for our sins, but he also expected us to change our ways and sin no more. Man is still imperfect, but even though we still love a person as a being, we cannot excuse any type of sinful/immoral behavior in the name of love!

  80. God’s design is perfect [period]. He only made 2 genders – (Gen 5:2) “Male and female he created them, and he blessed them and named them Man when they were created”. (Matthew 19:4) “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,”. (Mark 10:6) “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.”

  81. You know who the Pharisees are in this generation? The self-appointed holier-than-thou guardians of religion? The elitists who sit in their ivory towers condescending at the ignorant little people beneath them? They are the “enlightened” people too hip for “religion.”

    Pastor Carlos, please do not take this the wrong way. I don’t want to make it personal or sound like I am attacking you. But please imagine for a moment how this feels/sounds toward a socially conservative young person stranded in a wasteland of sex-driven culture. If they disagree with your approach, or if they struggle with feeling uncomfortable around sexual sinners, your tone in this article will make them feel like trash. Pharisee has become a dog whistle to use against inconvenient Christians.

    It’s easy to preach love when you’re not the one seeing vulgarity in your FB feed because of a family member sucked into these lifestyles. It’s easy to talk about being nice when you don’t witness them calling their ex every four-letter word they can think of, abandoning spouses to pay a mortgage alone, using children as blackmail if you say you’re uncomfortable, and demanding that you “supervise” your friends to make sure no one insults them. I’ve seen these things first hand. I’ve woken up in mornings to drunk-induced rants from the night before, siblings blocking each other, calling someone else a pedophile or insinuating they are secretly gay, all because someone had the nerve to suggest some behavior is dangerous.

    Sexual sinners are not innocent lambs. They are not victims crying out for someone to love them. They find online communities where they are trained on how to control their families. They are coached on tactics to force people to accept them.

    Many Christians who “refuse to love” sexual sinners are not doing so because of ignorance. To the contrary, it’s because they see the train moving full-speed ahead to smash all cultural resistance. They are not holier-than-thou Pharisees. They are Elijah being aware of how bad Jezebel is. They are Willem ten Boom coming back from college in Austria warning his family there’s a hurricane of depravity coming their way.

    This has nothing to do with whether or not Christians need to love these people. It has nothing to do with women being stoned for adultery. It has everything to do with one Christian assuming his enlightened tolerance is superior to how other Christians feel. Articles like this are systematically removing any leverage a young person has to push back against peer pressure.

    Pastor Carlos, if you would really like to minister in this arena, let’s get into the details of it. What should a sibling tolerate from a sexual sinner? Should they be able to babysit? Should someone dress in a trans outfit or bring their gay lover to Thanksgiving? How much should they stick up for abandoned spouses — and when is the vulgarity too much to listen to? How do they disengage without being intolerant? Lectures about adulterous women are great, but they don’t change how families feel in daily life.

    I say all of this in love because I believe you can handle a public challenge. The stakes are too high for us to avoid tough subjects. I hope you understand.

  82. This particular sin of Bruce Jenners’s is no different than mine…attempting to tell the Potter how He should have made the pot, me. We all react sinfully to the sins we perceive as committed against us.
    “Long lay the world in sin and error, pining til He appeared and the soul felt it’s worth. The thrill of hope the weary world rejoices for yonder breaks a new and glorious morn.” (read the rest of the words from O Holy Night)
    The tragedy in this world is that the church experiences little enough of Hope (belief that His kingdom really can come, here on earth as it is in heaven.)and therefore we do not broadcast it as seed on every path and byway, leaving the germination and growth to our God and Savior.
    It is no tragedy that Bruce had the surgery. The tragedy would be, like the rest of us, that the wells we have dug to drink the fullness of life from will not satisfy us. And like the rest of us , he, we will not be loved as he is, we are, but must grovel for the sad substitute of conditional love. It’s so hard to imagine the kind of love we were made for if we have not first seen what it looks like in another human.
    Would someone out there, knock on Bruce’s door and commit to being his/her friend. I guarantee there are many non Christians who will do that.
    “The world is so hungry for love they can smell it from miles away and will walk through anything to get it.”
    If the real thing ain’t available, we will run straight to the mirage and eat that.
    “Here’s the church, here’s the steeple. Open the doors and see all the people.” Dear Jesus, we give you permission to break every legalistic bone in our (the Church’s body). Amen
    Me? Guilty as charged, but filled with the gift of hope. It’s free for the asking.

  83. Pastor Carlos A. Rodríguez I just want to tell you Bro. out of love because I care for you. Becareful to not to pervert the truth which GOD has given us.. I warn you. let His word guide you Unrighteousness is NOT of God but of the WORLD. We are to love the sinner but despise the sin not saying Judge them as God judges the sinners. Homosexuality is sin, and ofcourse there is so many other sins and if your living in sin like you claim then you need to repent and get right with GOD. I love you GOD bless.

    • I believe the Bible is clear; Homosexuality is a sin. But so are about 30 different things I did today. That means we all need the Savior. We all need the sinless one to our rescue.” is what you said pastor… Pastor know that GOD didn’t save you to sin but to be free from sin. GOD does not tempt any man to sin! if your living for GOD and walking in spirit and truth you will not fall into temptation.

      Proverbs 4: 1-27
      1Hear, O sons, a father’s instruction,
      and be attentive, that you may gaina insight,
      2for I give you good precepts;
      do not forsake my teaching.
      3When I was a son with my father,
      tender, the only one in the sight of my mother,
      4he taught me and said to me,
      “Let your heart hold fast my words;
      keep my commandments, and live.
      5Get wisdom; get insight;
      do not forget, and do not turn away from the words of my mouth.
      6Do not forsake her, and she will keep you;
      love her, and she will guard you.
      7The beginning of wisdom is this: Get wisdom,
      and whatever you get, get insight.
      8Prize her highly, and she will exalt you;
      she will honor you if you embrace her.
      9She will place on your head a graceful garland;
      she will bestow on you a beautiful crown.”

      10Hear, my son, and accept my words,
      that the years of your life may be many.
      11I have taught you the way of wisdom;
      I have led you in the paths of uprightness.
      12When you walk, your step will not be hampered,
      and if you run, you will not stumble.
      13Keep hold of instruction; do not let go;
      guard her, for she is your life.
      14Do not enter the path of the wicked,
      and do not walk in the way of the evil.
      15Avoid it; do not go on it;
      turn away from it and pass on.
      16For they cannot sleep unless they have done wrong;
      they are robbed of sleep unless they have made someone stumble.
      17For they eat the bread of wickedness
      and drink the wine of violence.
      18But the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn,
      which shines brighter and brighter until full day.
      19The way of the wicked is like deep darkness;
      they do not know over what they stumble.

      20My son, be attentive to my words;
      incline your ear to my sayings.
      21Let them not escape from your sight;
      keep them within your heart.
      22For they are life to those who find them,
      and healing to all theirb flesh.
      23Keep your heart with all vigilance,
      for from it flow the springs of life.
      24Put away from you crooked speech,
      and put devious talk far from you.
      25Let your eyes look directly forward,
      and your gaze be straight before you.
      26Ponderc the path of your feet;
      then all your ways will be sure.
      27Do not swerve to the right or to the left;
      turn your foot away from evil.

      May this bless you Love you and Keep the Lord in your heart.

  84. You didn’t finish the passage. Jesus told her to go and sin no more! Jesus loves people immensely; but He hates sin and He told everyone to go and sin no more. Doesn’t change the fact that He loves them. Jesus didn’t just come to save us. We are predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. And He has done everything needed for us to be successful. At the end of Heb 2 and 4, He tells us that He came to know how we feel in trials so that He would know how to help us; and then in Heb 4, He says that we come boldly to the throne of grace to get mercy and grace to help in time of need and He knows how to help us. He didn’t call us to keep being sinners. He called us to be changed to be like Him which means speaking the truth in love – loving people, obeying His teachings, doing what HE says to do and turning people from sin.

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